Delta Passenger--go or stay

[Vikedog64]

luvthe9 is demonstrating the same childish temper tantrum that Lee Moak has demonstrated for his fellow pilots.

Problem is, the arbitrators publicly told DL and DALPA to shut up the rhetoric and get in and negotiate. You haven't heard from DL since but DALPA has only escalated the rhetoric.... not real smart when the arbitrators have the ability to determine in a heartbeat the future of the DL pilots.

It's also why national ALPA has told DALPA to figure out a way to come up w/ an agreement. National ALPA does not want to get blamed for shutting down an airline and the hellacious beating they will take in Washington during an election year. You can bet there are lots of voters like our Seneca and his family that will remember bing stranded (it isn't easy finding space to accommodate 300,000 passengers a day on other airlines) and take out their revenge at the polls for any politician that doesn't rip the innards out of the labor movement.

And ALPA doesn't want to incur the financial liabilities that they will have to bear if the pilots inflict damage to the company against a court order which will most certainly be issued by at least one court.

And ALPA doesn't want to be made out to be fools that cannot work with management when DL pilots were the highest paid in the industry by a very wide margin for several years after 9/11. The public can never find sympathy for that.

Lee Moak has run this whole campaign out of his personal anger for the company. But he is about to be reduced to insignificance and he is trying desperately to salvage what he can of his pathetic career.

He may be well to return to New Orleans and rebuild his fabled city. He and Mayor Ray should work well together.

Thanks WT. My feelings exactly. It's like I posted before.. I am embarassed for our company. I am so tired of my clients asking me what is going on. Obviously I tell them to book on DAL. This whole thing is childish and makes us look like kids in a playground fighting over who is "it".(tag) One of my clients was out at the airport in CVG when the pilots were doing their "informational" picketing. Her only comment was how nice their uniform looked. Does anyone think the public cares? I know some do but honestly???? Lee Moak and his band of misfits must have more important things to do than march the boys two by two through our airports. Pardon the sarcasm, but this is embarassing for our management, our public stature, and most importantly our employees, including our pilots.

 

[luv2fly]

Does anyone think the public cares?

I really don't care what the public thinks. We are long past fighting the public opinion war. The public doesn't give a damn what my contract is. If it were up to the general public, we would fly for free and so would you so they could save an extra ten bucks on their ticket.

Pardon the sarcasm, but this is embarassing for our management, our public stature, and most importantly our employees, including our pilots.

I would offer that you are in no position to claim the pilots are embarrassed seing as you are not one. 94% voted in favor of a strike. That's not being embarrassed. Thats called being pi$$ed off. DL management better be prepared to start real negotiations very soon. Me and the other 94% are sick of Jerry's diatribe and someone better clue him in real soon what it means to bargain in good faith or he will be responsible for the liquidation of DL Airlines.

 

[Ch. 12]

I really don't care what the public thinks. We are long past fighting the public opinion war. The public doesn't give a damn what my contract is. If it were up to the general public, we would fly for free and so would you so they could save an extra ten bucks on their ticket.

If your group doesn't care about public opinion, why the tacky billboards? Surely those are aimed at the public. And why the practice strike? Surely that is aimed at the public. Truth is...your group IS trying to win the public and the public doesn't care.

I would offer that you are in no position to claim the pilots are embarrassed seing as you are not one. 94% voted in favor of a strike. That's not being embarrassed. That called being pi$$ed off. DL management better be prepared to start real negotiations very soon. Me and the other 94% are sick of Jerry's diatribe and someone better clue him in real soon what it means to bargain in good faith or he will be responsible for the liquidation of DL Airlines.

Tell me about real negotiations. Which group is the only one to stray from its original request? Mgmt. They came down and your group still fails to even consider budging. The arbitration panel said to stop the rhetoric and start negotiating and mgmt stops the rhetoric and your group steps it up. Try compromising and maybe I'll give you some credit but I have to say that right now, EVERYONE can see (including the public) that only one side...no matter how evil you try to make them seem...is moving from its original figure. Go negotiate and quit with the rhetoric. I have no sympathy and that is sad b/c there used to be such unity across all of DL.

 

[luv2fly]

If your group doesn't care about public opinion, why the tacky billboards? Surely those are aimed at the public. And why the practice strike? Surely that is aimed at the public. Truth is...your group IS trying to win the public and the public doesn't care.

Read what I said. "I" doesn't mean ALPA. It means me. I usually qualify my statement with IMO. If I need to I will resume doing so for clarification.
That being said, whether or not my neighbor is on my side has no bearing on negotiations.
IMO, the billboards are not "tacky". One states "Gone with the wind. DL management has not funded employee pensions since July 2005". Seems like a pretty factual statement to me.
The second states "Airline managements come and go. It's the employees who keep DL flying."

Tell me about real negotiations. Which group is the only one to stray from its original request? Mgmt. They came down and your group still fails to even consider budging.

Stray from its original request?!?!? Demand is a more appropiate term. The issues surrounding my soon to be defunct pension have been left unresolved. The default of my pension and lack of further contributions by the company more than makes up the 150 million Jerry is trying to steal. The truth is DL management knew that plan would default and just considered that savings in the bank.
They would have continued their bogus negotiating tactics regarding the pension plan if Judge Prudence hadn't called them out for the stupidity of their argument.

The arbitration panel said to stop the rhetoric and start negotiating and mgmt stops the rhetoric and your group steps it up. Try compromising and maybe I'll give you some credit but I have to say that right now, EVERYONE can see (including the public) that only one side...no matter how evil you try to make them seem...is moving from its original figure. Go negotiate and quit with the rhetoric. I have no sympathy and that is sad b/c there used to be such unity across all of DL.

Yes, the panel did state to stop the rhetoric. You seem to misunderstand that the threat of a strike is not rhetoric. If the company throws out the contract, there will be a strike. No rhetoric there.
In addition, you brag about how the company has come off their demand. If the demand was extortionate to begin with, it does not matter. Perhaps the pilots should have started with a request for a 32% pay raise. Using your logic we then could have agreed to a 5% pay cut and claimed victory. :down:
I would like to make one thing very clear. Contrary to what you may believe, the pilots don't want to strike. Emotions aside I hope for the good of everyone in that both sides find some common ground. Right now, that is simply not happening. The latest information I have is that there is no negotiating taking place.

 

[malikie]

LUV2FLY. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS FOR YOU AND THEY WERE QUESTIONS I ASKED MY RAMP AGENTS WHE I WORKED FOR COMAIR.
THEY ARE JUST GENERAL QUESTIONS THAT I ASK AND PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ANY OFFENSE .

1. DO YOU LOVE YOUR JOB?
2. DO YOU HAVE FUN DOING YOUR JOB?
3. DO YOU LIKE THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR?

 

[luv2fly]

1. Yes, I love my job. That being said, I make alot of
of sacrifices to do it. I will not do it for any just
any price.

2. I enjoy flying. I believe that is why most pilots get
involved with aviation. Once again, I will not do it
for just any price.

3. I liked what DL Airlines stood for in the past. I do
not believe in the competency of the current management
team. I believe DL could thrive under the right
leadership but that is something we desperately lack at
the present time.

 

[Ch. 12]

I liked what DL Airlines stood for in the past. I do
not believe in the competency of the current management
team. I believe DL could thrive under the right
leadership but that is something we desperately lack at
the present time.

If you support the "leadership" of Moak who is most responsible for building the walls between the pilots and the rest of the workforce, I don't have any confidence in what you would find to be the "right" leadership.

 

[luv2fly]

If you support the "leadership" of Moak who is most responsible for building the walls between the pilots and the rest of the workforce, I don't have any confidence in what you would find to be the "right" leadership.

First it was John Malone, now it is Lee Moak. The truth is you and WT won't like any leader for ALPA because you are both pro-management and anti-labor. Your ideal MEC Chairman would be a management kiss a$$.
I am afraid I don't have any confidence in your ability to define leadership as well. At least the feeling is mutual.

 

[Ralph_78]

Hello, here's my 2 cents on the issue.

Fly on the Delta tickets you have. The possible rebooking fees seems quite expenisive over a strike that will most likely not happened.

I am a senior at the University of Illinois so I am not a pilot or anyone else associated with Delta. Here are the facts:

If you have booked wih a credit card you will get a refund on your tickets. If the strike happens before you leave.

If there is a strike other carriers will bring you home for a fee I think $25 per person, if there is space.

From what I have heard from News reports and such the 2 sides are 150 million apart. For a company that brings in A Lot of revenue and has over $2 billion in cash reserves, this makes a strike even less likely. This is only my opinion and could be wrong.


Look at all your options ask a lot of questions of the travel agent you went through (if you did) or book some extra insurence on line. But again this costs money. But it maybe worth doing a google search!

Hope this helps!

Ralph_78

 

[Winglet]

The question you have to ask yourself is "Do I feel lucky?"

Well, do 'ya . . .?"

 

[WNrforlife]

Your ALPA dollars, at work.......

Top 10 International ALPA Leaders & Staff (by Salary) Name Title Total Compensation
Duane Woerth President $ 550,729
Jalmer Johnson Geneal Manager $ 380,771
Jonatha Cohen Chief Counsel, D $ 370,957
Bruce York Director Represe $ 354,472
Spyrido Skiados Director, Commun $ 305,777
Kevin Barnhurst Director, Financ $ 297,681
Paul Hallisay Director Govern $ 293,753
Kenneth Cooper Asst Dir Represe $ 288,835
James Johnson Managing Attorne $ 285,249
William Roberts Asst Dir Represe $ 283,820

 

[luvthe9]

Your ALPA dollars, at work.......

Top 10 International ALPA Leaders & Staff (by Salary) Name Title Total Compensation
Duane Woerth President $ 550,729
Jalmer Johnson Geneal Manager $ 380,771
Jonatha Cohen Chief Counsel, D $ 370,957
Bruce York Director Represe $ 354,472
Spyrido Skiados Director, Commun $ 305,777
Kevin Barnhurst Director, Financ $ 297,681
Paul Hallisay Director Govern $ 293,753
Kenneth Cooper Asst Dir Represe $ 288,835
James Johnson Managing Attorne $ 285,249
William Roberts Asst Dir Represe $ 283,820

You forgot the secretary's that make more than the pilots!!!!! DUMP ALPA

 

[Paul]

This has what to do with giving opinions whether a customer should or should not book with Delta during this time?

Get it back on track folks.

 

[Garfield1966]

If Delta does not go on strike, no problems. If DL does strike, it could prove to be difficult. Not sure how many people are in St Lucia who want out but AA's flights are running about 50% or less on the 18th leaving SLU/UVF. If DL takes a ciesta, that could change in the blink of an eye. If this happens when you are there the first time you hear that DL has shut down, call AA res and book seats for your family to get the hell out of dodge. After that I would get down to what ever ATO is open and have the physical tickets changed. OH yea .... BIG POINT. if you have E-tickets on DL. GET PAPER ONES. From what I recall, it will more than likely SAVE YOUR A$$ should the worst case scenario happen. When you get your tickets re issued, make sure you get seat assignments. If the flight ends up being over sold, those with out seats are the first to get bumped in most cases. I tend not to be a trusting person. If you have a travel agent, you will not be the only one calling him/her. I would check with them before you leave to find out what your options are but once you are there, if the sh!t hits the fan, you are basically on your own. Do what you need to do to get it done.

Like a few have pointed out, odds seem unlikely that a strike will happen. So have fun but hedge your bets.

Hope this helps

 

[WorldTraveler]

luv2fly,
what do you want from DL management? They cannot pay you above average salaries but they are turning the company around AND they are returning DL customer service to its previously well-respected levels. There is a reason customers want to fly DL: they (and you) provide safe, reliable transportation that is no worse than industry average now and getting better. And despite your cries of ineptness from management, there were lots of people that wrote DL off a long time and DL mgmt has managed to keep it alive.

Calling mgmt is inept is just an excuse to not deal with them. Quite frankly, I find Moak's leadership far more inept than anything I've seen from any airline management team ever - and that would have to include Frank Lorenzo.