Delta pilot strike

[Ch. 12]

Normally, I would agree that anybody making $167k could afford a cut. But then again, I sometimes think about the "lean years" involved in a piloting career. They aren't hired in at a major carrier at $167k per year. Before they are hired in, they are either in the military (not the highest paying profession) or they are building hours working for less than healthy wages. Once they do hire in at a major, they are looking at a mandatory retirement at age 60. So while they do earn a good paycheck once they hit the big leagues, the period that they have to actually make that much money is limited.

Aside from the wage cuts, consider that they are also most likely looking at a pretty big haircut on their pension. And I think pointing to a Southwest or Jetblue, who don't have pensions, is a bit unfair...because they have other primary retirement vehicles that they have been a part of since their date of hire. You have a pilot working towards a pension who finds that pension to be a fraction of what he or she was expecting, then saying "do a 401K like the LCC's". That's great to tell new hires - they can focus on the 401K as their primary retirement vehicle. But is it fair to tell a 55 year old pilot the same thing?

We ALL go through the "lean" years and most of us don't see 167k in our lifetimes...even in the good years. As far as mandatory retirement goes...that doesn't mean there can be no job after retirement. Those of us that are beginning to realize that retiring at 65 is now just a novelty will most likely work different jobs at that point. We don't just stop at 60 and think that we're set UNLESS we are of a different lifestyle than the masses.

As far as WN and B6 comparisons go...I didn't point them out b/c of costs...I pointed them out b/c you mentioned market share. I simply said that newer carriers have been eroding market shares from the legacies for some time due to low barriers to entry. Never mentioned 401ks or pensions. While you mention it, though, that is just another harsh reality of the industry. Steel and auto workers have gone through the same. They, too, were industries making gangbusters a half century ago but that is no longer the case and unfortunately that affected millions of peoples' pensions. I do not enjoy what I see today but as with any portfolio...you have to diversify these days...and no time is too late. But again...I never drew the retirement issue out...I'm not sure where you got that from my post. I do hate that the situation with pensions is where it is, though, but I cannot blame a single company...I have to blame a decimated industry (due to the market...not mgmt).

The pilots of today are not going to enjoy the retirement of the PanAm and Eastern pilots of the 60's. No second house in Hawaii, etc. But this isn't a mgmt issue...this is a market issue and the market will never be what it once was.

 

[KCFlyer]

But this isn't a mgmt issue...this is a market issue and the market will never be what it once was.

And it's a shame. Because there is a "trickle down" effect for the worker. Low costs (in the form of wages and benefits) are great for shareholders - but sadly, most of America aren't significant shareholders of any company. Most of America depends on wages. And wages are dropping everywhere, not just the airlines. Tech and telecom used to provide a good living. Today it's just lower pay and longer hours. Henry Ford paid workers enough to buy the product they were building, insuring a constant demand for that product, today many aren't paid enough to do that. What happens to this country when the quest for "shareholder value" means that jobs are shipped either overseas, or kept stateside but pay diddly? Low costs are great. But somewhere in the equation someone's got to BUY something, and if their pay won't allow that, what happens? Sorry for the off topic post.

 

[Ch. 12]

I hear you, KC. I think the issue is that globalization has hit us but the US still thinks with an industrialization mindset. We are stuck in the paradigm we built and the visioin doesn't seem to be there to determine what is necessary to compete in a global environment. The less we look at the Henry Fords and the more we look at the Hu Jintaos, the better chance we will have at succeeding. I wish I knew what the answer for the US is but I don't (I'd be rich if I did!) Times are a changin' but we are not.

Of course...all of this tangent has more to do with manufacturing than an airline industry but it is just as troubling...

 

[exdlkevin]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051115/delta_pilots.html?.v=2

dl needs to pay the pilots instead of lawyers or give them a bonus after all dl knows that keeps good people

 

[Ch. 12]

dl needs to pay the pilots instead of lawyers or give them a bonus after all dl knows that keeps good people

Every day the pilots drag this on is another day of lawyers' fees and more $$ that will be needed to make up the shortfall. Lawyers fees are there either way due to BK...not due to trying to get much-needed concessions.

 

[skyflyr69]

I hope they go on strike. perhaps all pilots will answer the call and support the DAL pilots. this career raping has got to stop and ticket prices will just have to rise.

 

[Ch. 12]

I hope they go on strike. perhaps all pilots will answer the call and support the DAL pilots. this career raping has got to stop and ticket prices will just have to rise.

Saracasm is difficult to detect sometimes on these boards. I sure hope I detected some in your post?

 

[WorldTraveler]

ch. 12,
whether this post was sarcastic or not, there are some people who still think that everyone is willing to fall on the stake for the sake of their brother. May have been true at one time but it is hardly true in America and certainly not about economic issues.

 

[Ch. 12]

ch. 12,
whether this post was sarcastic or not, there are some people who still think that everyone is willing to fall on the stake for the sake of their brother. May have been true at one time but it is hardly true in America and certainly not about economic issues.

Willing or not...when they fall on that stake, it will push it through the hearts of the rest of the DL employees and everyone will be gone. Hardly seems like a "brotherly" fall would be an intelligent decision at this point.

 

[robbedagain]

is this true? Yesterday, CNN read reports that a Lawyer for Delta siad that the Pilots are Overly Compensated and if they strike, Delta would fly for no more than 2 Days then Go Out Of Business.

 

[KCFlyer]

is this true? Yesterday, CNN read reports that a Lawyer for Delta siad that the Pilots are Overly Compensated and if they strike, Delta would fly for no more than 2 Days then Go Out Of Business.

Did the lawyer make any comments concerning the compensation of lawyers? B) I guess this is what they call a "line in the sand". We'll see. Still booked on Delta for our return on the 26th...

 

[Ch. 12]

is this true? Yesterday, CNN read reports that a Lawyer for Delta siad that the Pilots are Overly Compensated and if they strike, Delta would fly for no more than 2 Days then Go Out Of Business.

It costs alot to fly a plane. It costs a helluva lot more to NOT fly a plane.

 

[robbedagain]

Did the lawyer make any comments concerning the compensation of lawyers? B) I guess this is what they call a "line in the sand". We'll see. Still booked on Delta for our return on the 26th...

good luck and have fun on your trip. it was the judge because the news had said that she--the judge-- not the lawyer had made another comment and this one as well.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL's covenants w/ its DIP lenders stipulate that if DL ceases operations for more than 2 days other than for a general grounding of all US aviation, the loans are in default and DL is shut down.

DL is in absolutely no position to whether any labor action and the financial covenants are designed to reinforce that.