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Delta pilots give it up again

...I was also preached to in the past that the salary levels account for much time wasted on the road and I should consider that when thinking of the salary levels of pilots.


If you want to figure an average hourly pilot salary (based on when their personal car is in the company parking lot) it is any where from $0.75 to $9.00 per hour depending if you are a copilot at Comair or FE Delta.

I passed up recal. I can make a lot more money and live a lot better in the real world.
 
Uh sparky... who is offering the "contradicting" figures? Does the order in which you happen to arrive in front of the AP reporter have any relationship to the truth of what you say?

What are you talking about?? I said they (DALPA) were NOT contradicting the avg salary figures put out by the company despite some pilots on these boards (some aren't even DL pilots and can only go off of hourly rates publicly posted) stating they are incorrect. I say (how many times now??) that if they were as far from the truth as some state...DALPA would have put out their own press release.

And I dumbed it down before but maybe not enough...ANYBODY can put out a press release...AP does not have to pick it up. It is a "RELEASE"...meaning one puts it out. Just go to yahoo airline news and you see press releases. If you are trying to say that DALPA will be second to put out a release...they sure have waited several months. I sure hope there isn't that much apathy (and actually know that there isn't b/c they are quite responsive on other issues).

Sorry...I don't get what you don't understand here.

If you want to figure an average hourly pilot salary (based on when their personal car is in the company parking lot) it is any where from $0.75 to $9.00 per hour depending if you are a copilot at Comair or FE Delta.

I passed up recal. I can make a lot more money and live a lot better in the real world.

IN CONTEXT...I was stating that there is too much inefficiency in the trip schedules. I agree that there is a wide disparity in pay between carrier types and equipment types. That is obvious.
 
What do you all think about the March 1st deadline, do you think that a strike is possible if Delta doesn't come down from the $325 million? It seems that they aren't even trying to negotiate with the pilots. If they were going to strike would they be able to do it on March 1st, or do they have to have a cool down period?
 
Unfortunately the DAL pilots have removed all their ordinance from their craft in order to make them more maneuverable, to use a military analogy.
 
Unfortunately the DAL pilots have removed all their ordinance from their craft in order to make them more maneuverable, to use a military analogy.

Huh? I thought you were with US...er LCC. How could you possible know that DAL pilots "have removed all of their ordinance"?? Seems like an attempt to stoke the fire.
 
The US board certainly is more lively. But the DAL pilots have proven their unwillingness to confront their managment head on. They have a real opportunity to turn the tide of labor relations (maybe one of the last opportunities) and they seem unwilling to take the necessary stand. Why did they allow a flood of RJ's? Why did they allow the retired pilots to come back rather than the furloughed guys? Why did they agree to a temporary pay cut? Did they think they would get a better deal later?
 
The US board certainly is more lively. But the DAL pilots have proven their unwillingness to confront their managment head on. They have a real opportunity to turn the tide of labor relations (maybe one of the last opportunities) and they seem unwilling to take the necessary stand. Why did they allow a flood of RJ's? Why did they allow the retired pilots to come back rather than the furloughed guys? Why did they agree to a temporary pay cut? Did they think they would get a better deal later?


While I don't disagree with many of your assertions, if you truly are with US, you have absolutely no right to throw stones at the DL pilot group.
Lets not forget who started this whole race to bottom game these management teams enjoy playing so much.
My apologies if you are not with US. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.
 
The issue is not hypocrisy. The issue is a pilot group that has enormous power within ALPA for many years now has the opportunity to show real leadership and prove that their power was deserved.

ALPA national needs to show leadership by prohibiting the types of things that have been allowed to go on at DAL and NWA or risk irrelevance. Of course this backbone needs to come from the BOD who are by and large pilots from UAL, DAL, NWA.
 
The issue is not hypocrisy. The issue is a pilot group that has enormous power within ALPA for many years now has the opportunity to show real leadership and prove that their power was deserved.

ALPA national needs to show leadership by prohibiting the types of things that have been allowed to go on at DAL and NWA or risk irrelevance. Of course this backbone needs to come from the BOD who are by and large pilots from UAL, DAL, NWA.
You got to be kidding let me fiil you in, ALPA NATIONAL IS WORTHLESS no one in national took a cut in pay or lost their pension or even made a suggetion how to go about this crisis in our industry, the country should have shut down when this started at US. Remember there is no union each airline wants the other one out of business. You keep paying your 2% to them!!!!!!!!
 
Again...we can go 'round and 'round and say the figures are not correct but as I keep saying (am I talking to myself?)...it just doesn't make sense that DALPA doesn't throw their own figures out there if the company's are so off base. Doesn't a counter argument make sense? ....

ALPA did state a Delta average pay in the following article:
http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...344&qpid=337391

“The Air Line Pilots Association… is asking Delta pilots to assess themselves $1 million to pay for consulting and legal expenses ...
In a letter earlier this month, ALPA Chairman Lee Moak urged Delta's 6,000 pilots to approve a 0.25 percent assessment of their incomes that would begin in January and continue through the end of June 2006.â€￾

So:
$ 1,000,000 divided by (0.25% pay) divided by (6000 members) divided by (6 month period) times (twelve month year) equals an average of $ 133,333.33
 
ALPA did state a Delta average pay in the following article:
http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...344&qpid=337391

“The Air Line Pilots Association… is asking Delta pilots to assess themselves $1 million to pay for consulting and legal expenses ...
In a letter earlier this month, ALPA Chairman Lee Moak urged Delta's 6,000 pilots to approve a 0.25 percent assessment of their incomes that would begin in January and continue through the end of June 2006.â€￾

So:
$ 1,000,000 divided by (0.25% pay) divided by (6000 members) divided by (6 month period) times (twelve month year) equals an average of $ 133,333.33

6000 members exactly, eh? And no...no they didn't post this in response to mgmt's claim that they made an average of 170k. Don't you get it?? I was saying that if a few people lurking around here are so adament that DL pilots don't average that much, why doesn't DALPA refute it????? Posting numbers referencing the development of a fund to prepare for the possibility of a merger is hardly a response to the 170k figure...especially when you have to read into the numbers and the result isn't so accurate (again...6000 pilots exactly??). Nice try but no...DALPA never did refute mgmt's figure of 170k which still leads me to believe that the figure holds some water. The truth is usually somewhere in between figures given by both sides but in this case...figures have only been given by one side.

Didn't this argument die months ago?
 
6000 members exactly, eh? And no...no they didn't post this in response to mgmt's claim that they made an average of 170k. Don't you get it?? I was saying that if a few people ...
The truth is usually somewhere in between figures given by both sides but in this case...figures have only been given by one side.

Didn't this argument die months ago?

I'm sure the number isn't exactly 6000.
I'm sure ALPA is hedging to ensure they get the money in the bank.
If I were setting up a fund like this, I'd aim high about 20%, just to make sure I got what I needed. But, the fact is that they did give a FLOOR estimate of the average salary from new-hire to senior pilot. If they hedged by 25% that would come to 167K. If the hedged by only 10% it would come to 148K, which is pretty close to the numbers I've seen posted here. If they didn't hedge, they are fools, but the number is still higher than would gain ANY sympathy from the general public, which is probably why they are staying away from it.

MB
 
No, probably couldn't make 75k. Maybe not even 50K or 35K. No one seems to know what a pilot is worth, especially the pilot's themselves. DAL pilots had a huge opportunity to bring the issue of the vanishing wage to the forefront, but they chose the cowards way out. 6000 pilots figured someone else would stand up for them someday. Now they've taken 14% less and ensured that every other airline pilot will face a 14%+ pay cut of their own in the future.

The NW mechanics' strike has failed due mostly to the other union's tacit approval of allowing scab labor on the property. A strike by DAL pilots would very likely result in the permanent job loss of those pilots. And that in and of itself wouldn't change things, but if the NW pilots and CAL pilots and UAL pilots and US pilots forced the issue, then maybe the unravelling of the pilot profession would be more than just a great media spectators blood sport.

The "incredible shrinking paycheck" is not only a problem at DAL, it's a problem in every job in every industry. We've got rampant greed on corporate level and a government that allows it. We've got wholesale export of not only manufactoring jobs but white collar jobs as well (H&R Block sends out the tax returns to India to have them done there). As been said, this goes beyond the scope of union vs non-union.

Each person has to decide for themselves what they will, and will not stand for. I left the industry 6 years ago when Boeing wouldn't pay me more than the grocery stockers were getting. I decided my skills, experience and expertise were worth more than re-stocking shelves. After looking around, I made a decision that if I was going to work for peanuts, I'd do it on my terms. Currently I work for myself. I make very little but I'm not making a greedy fat-cat rich doing it either. After getting a call from UPS out of the blue for their hiring pool (I wasn't even considering working in the industry again), I've decided to look around and see what's out there. I may, or may not return to the industry, it depends on what's offered.

As the saying goes, "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything." This is an INDIVIDUAL decision. For some, walking away from DAL might be good, for others, no. Yes, it might mean taking a pay cut. I took a HUGE pay cut, but to me it's worth it because I work on MY terms.
For me to leave my home (God's country), close my business and move to the urban jungle, I'm going to have to see some serious dough. Yes, I need the money, but it's more than money that will influence my decision.
 
Other jobs?

Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) filled it with GAS from Saudi Arabia and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his Computer (Made In Malaysia), Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in.AMERICA.....
 

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