Delta Pilots to Discuss Wage Cut Plan

[BillLumbergh]

Delta Pilots to Discuss Wage Cut Plan

 

[michael707767]

The talks are going to get ugly. Most of the pilots I know are willing to give concessions, but I have not yet met a pilot who is willing to give unless some things change. Management will have to give back their pension money, and take real pay cuts, or there will be no deal. And honestly, I don''t see management doing any of this. So, it will get ugly.

 

[ITRADE]

Mullin seems to have a way of squirming through anything...

 

[luv2fly]

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On 6/20/2003 8:48:45 AM ITRADE wrote:


Mullin seems to have a way of squirming through anything...

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He won''t squirm his way through this one. It is extremely unlikely that he will get anywhere near what he desires. Since these are not section 6 negotiations, DALPA is free to walk away at any time, unless of course Leo starts throwing around the "B" word.

 

[DVT]

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He won''t squirm his way through this one. It is extremely unlikely that he will get anywhere near what he desires. Since these are not section 6 negotiations, DALPA is free to walk away at any time, unless of course Leo starts throwing around the "B" word.

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I don''t think management is too worried. They don''t really expect to get much out of the pilots now. Delta will survive going into the 2005 contract negotiations. By then McCain''s arbitration legislation will have passed the Republican dominated Congress and the pilots will be standing with cup in hand, having refused to help the company when times were bad, with no WMD (the strike) as their ace-in-the-hole.

In 5 years it will all be over for mainline. They will find themselves at B and C scale levels. Their time in the sun has come and gone.

 

[luv2fly]

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On 6/21/2003 345 PM DVT wrote:


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I don't think management is too worried. They don't really expect to get much out of the pilots now. Delta will survive going into the 2005 contract negotiations. By then McCain's arbitration legislation will have passed the Republican dominated Congress and the pilots will be standing with cup in hand, having refused to help the company when times were bad, with no WMD (the strike) as their ace-in-the-hole.

In 5 years it will all be over for mainline. They will find themselves at B and C scale levels. Their time in the sun has come and gone.

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Washington -- Leo Mullin, chief executive of Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines, is calling for new federal policies to help the nation's largest airlines survive fierce competition from smaller, low-priced rivals.

Addressing industry and federal officials Thursday at the Aero Club of Washington, Mullin said lawmakers should cut airline taxes, permanently waive the $2.50-per-flight security fee due to resume this fall and make it easier for troubled airlines to merge or sell assets. Mullin said the time for direct federal loans or other subsidies is past, and that restructuring looms.

"The next three years are going to remake aviation as we know it," he said.

Mullin said traffic growth will resume but that U.S. airlines won't carry 1 billion passengers annually until 2014, vs. 2010 as projected before 9/11. He said the slower growth will "force some consolidation, perhaps to five or even four hub-and-spoke carriers." Today there are six. Some airlines will ax unneeded hubs, especially in the Midwest, he said.

Currently, five airlines operate hubs in seven Midwestern cities, including Cincinnati, Delta's second-largest hub.

Mullin said big airlines need to lower their operating costs to within 15 percent of low-cost, point-to-point carriers such as JetBlue and Southwest. Discount carriers have been gaining market share, but Mullin said bigger carriers still have advantages if they can solve their economic issues.

"Southwest's frequent fliers can fly to Abilene [Texas], but on Delta you can fly to Paris," Mullin said. "Where would you rather go?"

Mullin also said U.S. airlines have halted a campaign for legislation to require settlement of airline labor disputes in binding arbitration, as they focus on cost cuts that include union concessions.

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---->Without support from the ATA, I would think it unlikely that any McCain reform bill would pass. It is likely there will be some form of concessions in return for a contract extension. The pilots will not however, take such drastic cuts in pay and quality of life issues, based on the assumption that there will some form of arbitration based system in effect when the current PWA becomes amendable. That assumption would be idiotic.

 

[DVT]

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On 6/21/2003 8:52:40 PM luv2fly wrote:

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Mullin also said U.S. airlines have halted a campaign for legislation to require settlement of airline labor disputes in binding arbitration, as they focus on cost cuts that include union concessions.

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luv;

Watch for the headfake. After concessions are given the arbitration bill will be back on the table.

The next Congress will have a much easier time getting legislation through with a much more solid controlling majority. They won''t have to count on the votes of cooperative Dems as they do now.

 

[Farley]

DVT,
you are quick to blame the pilots for not helping when times are bad.

First, have you been watching the mess at AA and United? Were the pilot''s (or any of the other work group''s concessions matched by management? Didn''t management get caught at AA?

You seem to relish the idea of pilots groveling for a job. Why is that?

 

[DLFlyer31]

It will be interesting to see how these negotiations go.

I can''t imagine the pilots will be willing to give much without a few guarantees from management. The pilots will likely want some controls put in place on management compensation (salary, bonus and pension). Some sort of snap-back clauses so that if DL rockets back to profitability the pilots wages will rise sooner than later (don''t want to get screwed like the ''96 contract).

Then, there''s the whole issue of furloughs. How aggressive will the pilots be to get furloughees back to work? Not to mention the grievance DALPA just filed about the recent round of furloughs.

DL is reaching saturation point on the small RJ front. In fact, Comair/ASA have no 50 seat RJ deliveries scheduled for 2004...only 70 seaters. An agreement on a new 90-100 seat plane could be beneficial to both pilots and management, but it''s hard to tell how that will go.

Technically, DL can survive without pilot give backs. However, DL will be at a huge disadvantage to its competitors (especially the LCC''s which are DL''s greatest threat).

 

[michael707767]

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On 6/23/2003 10:48:09 AM DLFlyer31 wrote:

Then, there''s the whole issue of furloughs. How aggressive will the pilots be to get furloughees back to work? Not to mention the grievance DALPA just filed about the recent round of furloughs.

DL is reaching saturation point on the small RJ front. In fact, Comair/ASA have no 50 seat RJ deliveries scheduled for 2004...only 70 seaters. An agreement on a new 90-100 seat plane could be beneficial to both pilots and management, but it''s hard to tell how that will go.

Technically, DL can survive without pilot give backs. However, DL will be at a huge disadvantage to its competitors (especially the LCC''s which are DL''s greatest threat).

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I don''t think DALPA will be that aggressive regarding the furloughs....in fact I foresee them agreeing to more furloughs. Why? The senior guys will want to be able to fly more in order to make up for some of the pay cut, and the senior guys rule the union.

A deal regarding a 100 seat aircraft will certainly be a part of any agreement. Look for pay rates on a 100 seater that are about what the old express used to pay.

Can Delta survive without cuts from the pilots? Probably. But, it will be tough. The biggest problem going forward is paying off debt. I heard that this is what DALPA will propose. The Delta pilots represent about 40% of the DAL payroll. (roughly, I don''t know the exact number) They will offer concessions large enough to cover about 40% of the yearly debt payment. If management wants more they will have to go to the other employee groups for their share.

 

[buzzkill]

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On 6/23/2003 7:30:15 AM Farley wrote:

DVT,
you are quick to blame the pilots for not helping when times are bad.

First, have you been watching the mess at AA and United? Were the pilot''s (or any of the other work group''s concessions matched by management? Didn''t management get caught at AA?

You seem to relish the idea of pilots groveling for a job. Why is that?

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You are wrong about management at AA. Management did take significant reductions.