EADS Sees US Airways Emerging As a Strong Buyer...

ITRADE

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Aug 19, 2002
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[P]Does anybody know what % of US's Airbus orders were filled?[/P]
[P]Frankly, if US ever gets back into the position of ordering new aircraft, I believe that it should order nothing but A-320s and A-321s. They could really do with replacing the 757s and really don't need any more 120 passenger aircraft flying under mainline colors.[/P]
 

AOG-N-IT

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Aug 19, 2002
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Dear Lord!!! If you people had any concept about what you are saying? Airbus is a second rate airframe. From a technology standpoint they are fine. From a durability standpoint they are junk!! USAirways has slipped into a Beancounters Quagmire The confussion lies within difference between the price of purchase(Initial)...and the cost of ownership (Long-term). Long-term is exactly why we are taking concessions for the next six years. We would have been far better off purchasing Boeings. Ask anybody in maintenance about the Arbi. They will tell you that this will be a throw away aircraft...not to mention the hellish time we are having obtaining parts in a timely manner. The A319/320 is one thing...but the A321 and A330 is eating our lunch regarding logistics. Take a look around!! No other US operator had the A321...so when Airbus fails to have ready spare parts in the US...what the heck do you do then? You park and wait, that's what!! Thankfully NW is coming on board with the A330..but they have opted for a CF-6 Powerplant..not a hybrid Pratt & Whitney 4168 that nobody else but us uses. Trust me people...Eye Appeal and Initial Purchase price are but a small aspect of doing business..We need to be thinking LONG TERM on every move we make...otherwise we will continue to slip like we have since W&G saddled us with this mess. I do have to aknowledge the benefits of Airbus regarding Crew Training ..that is a positive. Beyond that? Airbus can bite the big one...and it usually does after the passengers and flight crews are tucked into thier warm beds. Don't worry ..we will make it all better before the next scheduled flight day.
 
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ref80

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AOG-IN-IT is right on with the characterization of the Airbus. US is more or less a test bed for the 321( and for that matter also the rest of the Bus fleet) since these aircraft are rather new to the everyday grinds of a transport category aircraft. Airbus has been in the commercial aircraft market since EA intiated sevice here in the states with the A-300 (late 70's-early 80's). These aircraft were not the electronic enriched versions of todays Airbus's, however I believe their useful life expired a few years ago making it an aircraft that will be lucky to see 20 years of service. Since a lifespan on the newer 319,320,321 has yet to be determined since these aircraft were placed into service in the mid 90's, a good guage for their useful lifespan in service could probably be made from the dismal lifespan of the A-300 series. I live byIf it ain't Boeing ,I ain't going.
 
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ref80

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This is a rough estimate on the Bus fleet. U has 118 of the 319,320,321 & 9 of the 330's( could be different). If memory serves me correct US's initial Bus order when it was announced in Nov.1996 was for somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 aircraft from Airbus. This order was for more than 200 options(not sure of the breakdown).
 

a320av8r

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Aug 20, 2002
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Ref80-
I didn't realize that U is the first Airbus operator. I thought I'd been seeing America West, Northwest, Air Canada, United, Air Jamaica, Mexicana, etc... flying them for years. Now I find that I am a trailblazer because I fly the bus! I'm also typed on the 727, 737 (flown the 200-300-400), 757/767, and Fk100. Incidently I love flying the bus and plan to retire from it. Air Canada and Air Jamaica also fly the 321. BTW- Isn't the rudder control unit being replaced on ALL 737's?
 
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ref80

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I'm not demeaning Airbus and their product and certainly not lowering myself to compare manufacturers quality and engineering with certain accident's. Boeing and Airbus have two completely different philosophy's in their design concepts. Boeing is designed with the pilot in the loop of all flight regimes and Airbus has designed it with the computer in the primary loop with the pilot monitoring( and able to overide a condition that may not be desirable ). It's your choice of how you prefer to control a aircraft and I was just stating the facts as they are. Please tell me who is flying a 30 year old Airbus today, as there are many 30+ year Boeing, Douglas and Lockheed aircraft still earning their keep today. I personally don't care what I retire on ( since it might be a RJ, Airbus or Boeing ), as long as I can earn a living flying until retirement.
 

exjetgurl

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Aug 31, 2002
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That's a bunch of crap. Ask the maintenance department managers who order and stock the parts inventory and you'll hear a different story. In the days following the bankruptcy filing Boeing didn't send parts for TWO WEEKS!! This is a fact. Airbus on the other hand has supported this company in a professional manner regardless of the bankruptcy filing. If you like Boeings go work at another airline because the handwriting is on the wall, Airbus is staying. After 427 my respect for Boeing is gone.
 

AOG-N-IT

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Exjetgirl, You couldn't know any less about what you are speaking about , if you tried!! Maintenace Managers and Stock Clerks are not what puts parts on the shelf lady!! Those issues are handled by the Material Services Division of USAirways...and the Material Control Unit (MCU) when The Chit Hits the Fan. I have heard from every single aspect of USAirways Maintenance complaining about Airbus as an aircraft..and thier complete lack of dedication to After the Purchase support This has been the expressed view from the Duty Managers in PIT (OCC)...all the way down to the most junior mechanic. Need further clarification? Spend some time in TPA durng a C-Check..or DCA. Maybe seeing some corroision being found under the Lav of a 4 yearold tinker-toy will illuminate your narrow view? You dear lady are so over your head with you comments...that it's hardly worth responding too. I'm only doing so to enlighten those with the desire to understand reality. Yes , We did encounter a short period of time where Boeing placed us on a Credit Hold after filing CH11. Chapter 11 Filings caused this in a very broad spectrum. Even vendors for Paper Towels and Toilet Paper needed to insure that they would be paid. The provisions of CH11 had to be understood by creditors , that anything bought after filing CH11 was going to be paid , or we would be in violation of a Court Order. Boeing was just one of many accounts that had to be re-configured after the shock of filing. Just as a classic example..We could not get Airbus products into the US for awhile due to our Customs Broker placing us on a Credit Hold. So here we are...A part located overseas...and when it arrives in JFK/ATL or whatever port of entry? It's stuck. You do not have anything like this when buying from Boeing in SEA,ATL or even Wichita when the need arrises. Boeing is also 10 times more likely to have the product in actual stock....If not? We still have the option of buying from another US based carrier. Airbus limits us in this very regard , all too often. You may have your fears regarding the aftermath of Flight 427...and I respect , but fail to see your fears as valid. Fears are one thing...but your version of fact is so distorted It's Laughable. Airbus maybe the future of U , thanks to the likes of Wolf...and maybe it's too late to turn back the clock? , but I can bet you anything you choose to lose? That the B737NG's that have been purchased by DL,WN and AA during the same timeframe we were buying Airbi, will still be flying and generating revenue , LOOOOOONG after we have had to replace the facade of durability known as Airbus Industries.
 
C

chipmunn

Guest
US Airways Airbus Fleet Statistics

A-330

Active - 9
Firm Orders - 1 for delivery in 2006
Options - 20

A-319/320/321

Active - 118
Firm Orders - 35 with first three scheduled for delivery in 2005 Q4.
Options - 247

Chip
 

AOG-N-IT

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Aug 19, 2002
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Just a side note. Two things I never expect to see. (1)A Pilot with a fairly secure future, ever making complaints about the type of aircraft they currently fly. I'm confident that you will be hard pressed to find a pilot with any valid complaints about his aircraft,regardless of type. The issues I pose are from the post flight Write-Ups(RON) and Heavy Maintenance perspective. People never consider the aspects of things that they don't see openly..or in the light of day. (Corrective Action..and the support to perform corrective action) (2) Anyone beginning to see that doing business with Airbus is bad for not only USairways..it's bad for Our countries economy. Every Airbus purchased in the US and abroad , has effectively taken american workers from the production end...and the support end out of the US job market. Maybe I'm guilty of thinking of things in too broad of terms...but I would rather be judged that way. Than being judged by, or thought about in terms of only thinking about myself. I can assure you...The purchase of Airbus products by U was looked at in 3 deminsions.. (1) Initial Delivery Price (That years spread sheet) not the long-range perspective (2) Delivery timeframe (Boeing was booked solid on delivery options during this period of time) (3) What was in it , in return to W&G for penciling the deal? My bets are , the return yield was lavish!! Too bad we will end up paying for this in stones for the remainder of thier time with us. Again...I do not fault any Pilot for defending his aircraft , I would expect nothing less , and I respect that!!...and I don't fault people for having a less than fully educated opinion about logistics. But logistics is what makes things happen or not. The price of the logistical support is directly related to availability and time and distance from where a need happens to be? Doing business abroad , increases this sad aspect by a damnsight. Sorry if I have offended any of our illustrious Airbus Pilots. That is not the intention...my opinions are based purely on the cost of doing business...and doing so in terms of not just today..but 10 years down the road.
 

WNjetdoc

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/8/2002 10:38:41 PM exjetgurl wrote:

That's a bunch of crap. Ask the maintenance department managers who order and stock the parts inventory and you'll hear a different story. In the days following the bankruptcy filing Boeing didn't send parts for TWO WEEKS!! This is a fact. Airbus on the other hand has supported this company in a professional manner regardless of the bankruptcy filing. If you like Boeings go work at another airline because the handwriting is on the wall, Airbus is staying. After 427 my respect for Boeing is gone.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey exjetguru, the reason Boeing didn't send parts wasn't because they didn't have them it was because they wanted to make sure they were going to get paid, come on, use your head gurl. And the AMTs you hang out with must be foremen.
 

757fixer

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Aug 20, 2002
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AA587 was an A300,not an A320.As for your question,I don't belive so but wouldn't swear to it.
 

exjetgurl

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Aug 31, 2002
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Airbus aren't junk AOG. They aren't Barbie's Plastic Dream Jet (aka Fokker 100). The mechanics I hang out with love the Airbus. Most appreciate the technology that in turn makes their job easier. The only bad things I hear about it are from the flight attendants who have burned their hands in the ovens - can't say I blame them. Overall, Airbus is a great plane, IMHO.
 

JI Guy

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Aug 20, 2002
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Hey question folks: Is the structural integrity question as it relates to the composite materials being used in the tails ONLY on A320s like on the AA587 that crashed in Rockaway, NY or are the concerns extended to other Airbus units? There was a great article about the issue in Vanity Fair a few months ago.
 

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