Eu: U.s. Airline Market Offer Falls Short

[ITRADE]

E.U.: U.S. airline market offer falls short

 

[flying bug]

What is the problem for the US gov. to allow EU carriers to operate services within the US?

Another steel import tax way of business?

 

[AAmech]

Why in the world should EU airlines be allowed to fly within the US? Theres NOTHING the EU could give in return that would make up for the loss of US jobs that this would bring. This would be nothing but a another Job Export!

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

Why in the world should EU airlines be allowed to fly within the US? Theres NOTHING the EU could give in return that would make up for the loss of US jobs that this would bring. This would be nothing but a another Job Export!

Hold your horses!!!!!!!!!

First of all US airlines fly within the EU (or at least used to), so why should EU airlines be denied the same.

Then why are you affraid of export of jobs. You should think of creating jobs. And on top of that it could be contingent on hiring local employees (and I know it is more about cockpit than any thing else) for those flights.

So don't think of it as a negative. Look at the positive it could bring. Also think of it as more choices for the passengers.

 

[Farley]

I'm just curious what routes a US Flag carrier is flying within the EU. I don't know of any.

 

[TDR1502C]

Are EU carriers' costs competitive enough to make it in the states? A few years ago a trade magazine had a list of operating costs for the EU carriers, and the best EU LCC was higher than the worst US legacy carrier. Anyone have any new comparisons?

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

I'm just curious what routes a US Flag carrier is flying within the EU. I don't know of any.

Delta "used" to fly with in Europe but has opted now to use the network of their Alliance Partners.

 

[mga707]

Delta "used" to fly with in Europe but has opted now to use the network of their Alliance Partners.

And Delta's route authorities were inherited from Pan Am, who did it prior to DL's takeover of PA's European routes in 1990. TWA also used to have a few intra-European services (remember the hijacked 727 of Capt. Testrake?).

 

[PHX Flyer]

You are forgetting the freight carriers. Both UPS and Fedex have huge hub operations in Europe. When their European competitor DHL tried to establish the same here in the US - by taking over Airborne, they faced all sorts of hurdles thrown in their way by an unholy alliance of UPS, Fedex, and politicians who love to praise free trade on every occasion except for when it comes to opening up their own home turf. I am not even sure if the foreign ownership issues surrounding the construct of ABX Airlines are resolved at this time, or if it's still pending before an appeals court somewhere.

Another issue is the claim of European airlines that US carriers "subsidize" their transatlantic flights with revenues from their domestic operations, which allows them to undercut their European competitors' fares. For all major European airlines, the North Atlantic market is by far the biggest revenue generator, whereas all US airlines rely first and foremost on the domestic market (case in point: those who did not have a sufficient domestic network as a backbone, are not around anymore). I am not sure if this claim actually holds water, especially nowadays in light of the increasing competion from low-cost airlines here in the US.
On the other hand, I cannot think of a single reason, why we should not allow European airlines to compete here, if they feel they are up to it. As long as these rights are reciprocated in the EU, I have no qualms about it at all. Actually, I think that both US and EU carriers would be better off, if they merged into global corporations with equal access to all pertinent markets. This would create a level playing field for everybody.

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

You are forgetting the freight carriers. Both UPS and Fedex have huge hub operations in Europe. When their European competitor DHL tried to establish the same here in the US - by taking over Airborne, they faced all sorts of hurdles thrown in their way by an unholy alliance of UPS, Fedex, and politicians who love to praise free trade on every occasion except for when it comes to opening up their own home turf. I am not even sure if the foreign ownership issues surrounding the construct of ABX Airlines are resolved at this time, or if it's still pending before an appeals court somewhere.

Another issue is the claim of European airlines that US carriers "subsidize" their transatlantic flights with revenues from their domestic operations, which allows them to undercut their European competitors' fares. For all major European airlines, the North Atlantic market is by far the biggest revenue generator, whereas all US airlines rely first and foremost on the domestic market (case in point: those who did not have a sufficient domestic network as a backbone, are not around anymore). I am not sure if this claim actually holds water, especially nowadays in light of the increasing competion from low-cost airlines here in the US.
On the other hand, I cannot think of a single reason, why we should not allow European airlines to compete here, if they feel they are up to it. As long as these rights are reciprocated in the EU, I have no qualms about it at all. Actually, I think that both US and EU carriers would be better off, if they merged into global corporations with equal access to all pertinent markets. This would create a level playing field for everybody.

I agree with you that the future will not be how many airlines are going to survive. It is going to be how many Alliances are ther going to be.

Just take for example the auto industry. We drive Ford, Volvo, Jaguar, Chrysler, Buick, Pontiac etc, but what company is the owner of what brand?


Ford = Ford, Volvo, Jaguar and more
GM = Chevy, Ponitiac, Buick, Opel, Vauxhaul and more
Daimler = Mercedes, Chrysler, Jeep, etc.
VW = VW, Porshe, Audi, Rolls Royce and more
BMW = BMW, Bentley, Leyland...


The only reason why Star has not evolved into something like that is the ownership rules. DLH is subsedising UA more than a lot of people know about and even dare to talk about. Star is more than just a Frequent Flier Program. Star can become that first major Airline Group. So in the future I can see three major airline groups and some local LCC's. And once a group is formed, they will use the names they have like car manufacturers are doing it now. (A Mustang and a Cougar are the same car just with a different logo on it). So flying UA or flying LH might one day be the same.

And you are correct, we always think about PAX carriers but never talk about Cargo.

Everything is all a matter of time. And at the end it does not matter who flies, all that matters is how many jobs will be created.

 

[mga707]

(A Mustang and a Cougar are the same car just with a different logo on it).

Not since the 1973 model year. But this isn't a car group, so never mind... B)

 

[PHX Flyer]

... and Porsche is not VW (sorry, I just had to put this straight )

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

... and Porsche is not VW (sorry, I just had to put this straight )

No it is not, but VW owns Porsche 100% and that since over 30 years!