EXECUTIVE BONUSES MAKE ME SICK!

jetmechjer

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Aug 8, 2004
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My pay stays stagnet as I watch natural gas, electricity, house taxes, gasoline, car and house insurance and medical care skyrocket. I have always lived well with in my means. But thanks to the executive crooks here at Eh Eh I am really starting to feel the financial pressure after all these years since our concessions. It is sickening to watch my co workers file for bankruptcy and loose thier houses and cars while while Mr. Our Pay and his cronies richly reward themselves once again!! I think I may need to consult my doctor for some medication to help me accept all this but..............lets see 20 dollar copay and 50 dollar deductable for medication and copay on that and half pay sickdays for the first two..........I can't afford Eh Eh's medical plan! Thats over 300 dollars for a couple days off and medication!!
Oh well when ya gotta ya gotta............
WHAT DAY IS IT THAT THE BRINKS TRUCK DRIVES UP TO CENTERPORT AGAIN????? :blink: :blink:
 
My pay stays stagnet as I watch natural gas, electricity, house taxes, gasoline, car and house insurance and medical care skyrocket. I have always lived well with in my means. But thanks to the executive crooks here at Eh Eh I am really starting to feel the financial pressure after all these years since our concessions. It is sickening to watch my co workers file for bankruptcy and loose thier houses and cars while while Mr. Our Pay and his cronies richly reward themselves once again!! I think I may need to consult my doctor for some medication to help me accept all this but..............lets see 20 dollar copay and 50 dollar deductable for medication and copay on that and half pay sickdays for the first two..........I can't afford Eh Eh's medical plan! Thats over 300 dollars for a couple days off and medication!!
Oh well when ya gotta ya gotta............
WHAT DAY IS IT THAT THE BRINKS TRUCK DRIVES UP TO CENTERPORT AGAIN????? :blink: :blink:



Well every time someone goes above and beyond so that plane goes out they make MrOurpay shine.


When you look at the profit sharing formula, AIP and the Stocks its clear that they have made it impossible for us to get back what we lost regardless of how hard we work or how well the company does.

Like it or not working together is not the way to get back what was taken. Working Together is rewarding management for screwing us and will result in more screwing. The worse the company does due to labor problems and poor morale the quicker Ourpay will be gone and the more likely that the company will change its strategy from screwing the workers while offering false incentives and threats to one of real shared gains. Taking away $20,000 a year and then offering $50/quarter for meeting performance objectives isnt a gain, its still a $19,800/yr paycut. Touting that employees "may" get up to $1000 each in profit sharing "if" they make $1.2 billion in profit still leaves us with a $119,000 loss of income.The recent surge in AMR stock also still leaves us way way behind and we would need to see it go up another $270 a share to get back what it cost. Even if all those things happened, meeting performance objectives, Billions in profits and another $270/share we would still find ourselves in 2008 with a base pay thats less in real dollars than ever before.

Going the extra mile makes all the difference. Consider this, if a flight gets cancelled because you simply didnt go the extra mile the revenue lost exceeds what they took from you, thats just one flight. That first class seat to Shanghai you left placarded till the next overnight just cost them $20,000, or a years worth of savings. The ACM that stayed on placard cost them a few grand in fuel. The APU that ran all night another couple of grand. Even a nav light that continues on placard could cause revenue loss down the road, didnt fix the lavs because the nav light ran out of time, x seats could not be filled. The little things add up, if AA does earn $1billion then they should have and could have earned $2billion. The thing is that the little things are never part of the bean counters calculations, they have no dollar value for morale. If they preformed x units of work at this rate they perform the same at any rate. Reality isnt always reflected in bean counters formulas.

Pan Am was once a great airline, they cut wages until the day they closed their doors. By the time they went out of business they were among the lowest paid workers in the industry.If all you can offer your workers is a job with no future then your workers will treat the job the same way. Nav lights, lavs, seats, these are symptoms of poor morale with just one department, eventually they add up to big losses, losses that far exceed the spoils of defeating your workforce.
 
The SFO Base had a f/a meeting today with a healthy turn out to question members of management regarding their bonus. I haven't seen this kind of turn out or disgust since the 93 strike. Its a shame what is transpiring at AA and Corporate America on the whole.. Lets also remember that lower/mid management is being screwed as well and have been surprisingly vocal.
 
What a sad, sad way to live.

You have my sympathy.


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Bear96,

IF your comment was directed towards Bob Owens...............then Brother..."YOU" have MY sympathy.
Why(you might ask) ??
Because Mr. Owens IS "telling the TRUTH", and explaining an alternative solution, that(TRUST ME), if followed, would get AA's ATTENTION, in a NY minute !!!!!!!!!

Now, what could be considered...as sad, is that "those" hypothetical Tactics are the ONLY thing that would force AA, to deal with it's employees, more fairly !!!

OH, and by the way, ..If "it" should come to fruition, as Bob Owens suggests, it would'nt be a UNION ISSUE, because AA would be forced to "throw" the non-union folks a scrap or two.

DESPERATE TIMES...beget..DESPERATE MEASURES !!

NH/BB's
 
The SFO Base had a f/a meeting today with a healthy turn out to question members of management regarding their bonus. I haven't seen this kind of turn out or disgust since the 93 strike. Its a shame what is transpiring at AA and Corporate America on the whole.. Lets also remember that lower/mid management is being screwed as well and have been surprisingly vocal.

Yes, we have to remember that the "upper crust" of this company are the ones reaping the benefits. The supervisor level doesn't share in the "wealth."

Like I said in another post, Redding came to JFK a few weeks ago and defended his "PUP." They continually, as some greed supporters on this forum do, compare their compensation to execs at other companies. They like to remind us that other airlines which filed for bankruptcy hurt their employees more, and that we should be "grateful."

They need to be reminded that thanks to billions in concessions, AA has been able to sock away about $5 billion in cash and help the stock climb to nice levels.
 
They continually, as some greed supporters on this forum do, compare their compensation to execs at other companies. They like to remind us that other airlines which filed for bankruptcy hurt their employees more, and that we should be "grateful."

I'm not a supporter of the way the bonuses are triggered, but they've got a point when it comes to compensation at other companies -- AMR management and executives have always been on the bottom rungs as far as base pay goes.

If it's fair for you to compare yourselves in bad times to profitable airlines like SWA and UPS as far as contracts go, then it's fair game to expect execs to do the same.

They need to be reminded that thanks to billions in concessions, AA has been able to sock away about $5 billion in cash and help the stock climb to nice levels.

Uh, don't forget the billions in supplier concessions, and billions upon billions of increased revenue from fare hikes, fuel surcharges, buy-on-board, ticket change fees, baggage fees, and talk-to-a-real-person fees paid by your customers.
 
If it's fair for you to compare yourselves in bad times to profitable airlines like SWA and UPS as far as contracts go, then it's fair game to expect execs to do the same.
The difference is we are comparing ourselves to people in the same industry, they are comparing themselves to people in other industries. So they arent doing the same.

If we were to compare ourselves to similarly skilled people outside of this industry then we would have even more of an arguement.

Besides the growing general concensus throughout society is that executives are over compensated, so argueing that others get paid more really doesnt carry much validity, the real question is "does what they do warrant such compensation?" I would say that no employee could work hard enough or enough hours in a year to justify millions of dollars in salary in a single year unless his job was so risky that he stood a good chance of dying on the job.
 
American Execs are no worse compensated than another airline. A larger portion of their compensation might be "at risk"..the bigger the "risk" the bigger the "payout". Thats what we are seeing happen now. These absurd PUP/PSP numbers, (eclipsing the total number of profit over the last 5 years at AMR)is a result of a very flawed system based on stock price generating big payouts to make up for the years prior lack of compensation. I would say they have on the whole after 2 years of "deferred compensation" payout have more that made up for what the have allegedly lost.

I had a few years prior I would like someone to look at as well...?

Im over it, and bitter....
 
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Bear96,

IF your comment was directed towards Bob Owens...............then Brother..."YOU" have MY sympathy.
Why(you might ask) ??
Because Mr. Owens IS "telling the TRUTH", and explaining an alternative solution, that(TRUST ME), if followed, would get AA's ATTENTION, in a NY minute !!!!!!!!!
Yes, it probably would.

I still think it is a sad way to go through life, expending so much energy hating your employer that you want to go out of your way to destroy it.

It is much better to find an employer that makes you happy, IMO. Maybe even strike out on your own and start your own business if you think all employers are evil. (That would also have the side benefit of giving you a perspective on how hard it is to be a good manager and make a profit.)
 
They continually, as some greed supporters on this forum do, compare their compensation to execs at other companies. They like to remind us that other airlines which filed for bankruptcy hurt their employees more, and that we should be "grateful."

They need to be reminded that thanks to billions in concessions, AA has been able to sock away about $5 billion in cash and help the stock climb to nice levels.

Since you're not a pilot, you really didn't benefit all that much by AMR not filing for bankruptcy protection. Truth be told, the pilots and maybe the overhaul mechanics gained the most by avoiding bankruptcy.

That the pilots benefitted the most is obvious: they still enjoy a huge defined benefit pension (several times the PBGC-guaranteed maximum for retired-at-age-60 workers). Plus, don't they still have an option to take half in a lump sum at retirement? The way the stock market has recovered, that alone can be $1.5 million or more.

After the pilots, the overhaul mechanics probably benefitted most - since in Ch 11, the temptation to get out of all the obligations related to the maintenance bases and ship the work overseas would probably have been too great to ignore. Like every other airline has done. Like over at UAL.

So if some management toady tells you to be grateful that AMR did you a favor by not filing for Ch 11 - tell 'em to shove it. Cause you're right about that one.

About the $5 billion in cash, as eolesen pointed out, there's more than just concessions behind the current cash balance: Don't forget to add the $1.5 billion or so raised in new stock sales since the concessions - $900 million in the past 9 months in two separate offerings. And don't forget to add more than a billion of new debt borrowed in 2003-04 after the concessions.

Last year, AMR's cash flow from operations was $1.9 billion, just a little more than the $1.8 billion of annual pay concessions. Take away those wage savings, and AMR would have been cash flow break even.

Break even doesn't pay down the $3 billion of new debt borrowed between September, 2001 and April, 2003 to fund the pre-concession paychecks when cash flow was negative. Break even doesn't pay down the $2 billion of pension plan underfunding. Break even doesn't pay for new fuel efficient airplanes that didn't look like such a pressing need when fuel was $0.55/gal a few years ago but are a number one concern now that fuel is around $1.80 - $2.00/gal.

What bankruptcy avoidance did was take the total market cap of AMR from $225 million in March, 2003 and expand it by 3,400% to the present level of more than $7.6 billion. The stock went from $1.50/sh to over $32/sh today (and hit $41 a while back). The shareholders are pretty happy about that growth in wealth. So the greedy bastard executives have decided to take their cut in the form of roughly $300 million of extra stock over two years (so far). Yawn. Nothing outrageous to see here.

Compare that to the UAL execs who asked for 15% and got 8% of the new stock of UAL (UAUA) merely for guiding UAL thru bankruptcy, slashing wages, terminating pensions, closing all heavy airframe overhaul and spending over $660 million on bankruptcy lawyers, accountants, investment bankers and consultants - you know - their friends. That 8% take was valued at about $480 million early last year. Dunno what it's currently worth. The PUP payouts' formula is flawed, with far too much emphasis on stock price growth and not enough on internal results - but compared to what happened at UAL, the bottom line dollars are very reasonable.

If AMR had filed for Ch 11, and the execs followed the UAL roadmap, their stock payout upon Ch 11 exit would have easily been equal to the half billion that UAL's execs got and likely would have been more. AMR would have likely spent nearly a billion dollars on Ch 11 fees and expenses. The pilots would be broke compared to where they are now. Lots and lots of mechanics would be selling homes in Tulsa and Kansas City and maybe even Fort Worth and looking for work.

Avoiding bankruptcy helped some and probably hurt others (relative to what would happened to them in Ch 11).

Bob Owens said:
The difference is we are comparing ourselves to people in the same industry, they are comparing themselves to people in other industries. So they arent doing the same.

If we were to compare ourselves to similarly skilled people outside of this industry then we would have even more of an arguement.

Besides the growing general concensus throughout society is that executives are over compensated, so argueing that others get paid more really doesnt carry much validity, the real question is "does what they do warrant such compensation?" I would say that no employee could work hard enough or enough hours in a year to justify millions of dollars in salary in a single year unless his job was so risky that he stood a good chance of dying on the job.

One reason that airline execs compare themselves to execs in other industries is that their skills (whatever those may be) transfer fairly readily. A chief financial officer for an airline who is good at what they do can work for any major corporation - it doesn't have to be an airline. Same for most other MBA-holding executives, be it Marketing, Finance, Accounting, etc.

The nuts and bolts operations executives who have learned how to run an airline system with 4,000 daily flights and 100k employees are a little less marketable, except to other airlines.

About your bolded quote: Kinda hard to justfify paying anyone more money than you make based on that reasoning. After all, you work hard, in the elements, and risk death at work. So far, that philosophy hasn't gained much traction in the USA. For that I'm glad.

You're right - you could work to rule and placard that broken First Class suite. If it really meant that AA didn't sell it to Shanghai (rather than prevent a J -> F upgrade) then your work action cost AA about $13k at list price (round trip, full F). AA sells F to China but usually at some corporate discount - maybe $10k net of that discount. But why would you do that? Don't you want to work for a profitable company? Do you really think someone at AA is gonna say "we can't have all these broken F seats anymore - it's costing us too much revenue. So let's give in to Bob Owens' demands and restore the mechanics' pay according to his CPI chart."

Maybe that would happen.

More likely is that someone at AA is gonna say "let's hire another couple mechanics at LHR and other foreign stations so we can have them fix what those lazy guys at JFK refuse to do. And while we're at it, let's pull a NW and lock these guys out and replace them."
 
More likely is that someone at AA is gonna say "let's hire another couple mechanics at LHR and other foreign stations so we can have them fix what those lazy guys at JFK refuse to do. And while we're at it, let's pull a NW and lock these guys out and replace them."

They cant lock us out its against the law just like we cant strike its against the law.

Let them hire more mechanics abroad then we really wont have to do anything. Then they will probably lay us all off and all the work will be done overseas. It will be a shame when the plane breaks hard in JFK and there are no AA mechanics to fix it. But Im sure you have that all figured out.

;)
 
I'm not a supporter of the way the bonuses are triggered, but they've got a point when it comes to compensation at other companies -- AMR management and executives have always been on the bottom rungs as far as base pay goes.

If it's fair for you to compare yourselves in bad times to profitable airlines like SWA and UPS as far as contracts go, then it's fair game to expect execs to do the same.

The difference is that all we can do is COMPARE and talk about it and never get anything, while the execs actually GET SOMETHING!
 
Yes, it probably would.

I still think it is a sad way to go through life, expending so much energy hating your employer that you want to go out of your way to destroy it.

It is much better to find an employer that makes you happy, IMO. Maybe even strike out on your own and start your own business if you think all employers are evil. (That would also have the side benefit of giving you a perspective on how hard it is to be a good manager and make a profit.)

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NO....Bear96, Bob Owens and I are not saying "destroy" AA !

You "seem" to think, that IF the "good ol' boys" in TUL stopped "going the extra mile", that AA will immediately go into BK-11.

Bob Owens and I are suggesting that IF the "good ol' boys" stopped going the extra mile, that AA WOULD go to "plan B"(along with THEIR union..the twu) to RELUCTANTLY have to "sweeten the pot" in the upcoming contract negotiations.

YES...OF COURSE, if AA had to go to plan "B", it would come at a cost(have to give..to get), perhaps in the form of losing AMT's and FSC's in smaller stations, but any true union man knows THAT is always a (potential) risk, one that the majority of AMT's and FSC's ARE prepared for.

AH, but its all hypothetical anyway, because(sadly) the(majority of)the "good ol' boys" in TUL, don't have the BALLS or BRAINS, to bring it to fruition.

NH/BB's
 

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