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Extremely Outrageous Us Fares

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:shock: Itinerary Total - US$ 818.90 Flight Fare Rules
1 adult at US$ 818.90
6:00am Depart Long Island Macarthu (ISP)

7:10am Arrive Philadelphia, PA (PHL) Jan. 10
US Airways flight 4203 operated by US AIRWAYS EXPRESS-PIEDMONT AIRLINES View rules
10:05am Depart Philadelphia, PA (PHL)

11:10am Arrive Long Island Macarthu (ISP) Jan. 11
US Airways flight 4310 operated by US AIRWAYS EXPRESS-PIEDMONT AIRLINES

I guess US does not want anybody to take this flight.
 
LongIsland2004 said:
:shock: Itinerary Total - US$ 818.90 Flight Fare Rules
1 adult at US$ 818.90
6:00am Depart Long Island Macarthu (ISP)

7:10am Arrive Philadelphia, PA (PHL) Jan. 10
US Airways flight 4203 operated by US AIRWAYS EXPRESS-PIEDMONT AIRLINES View rules
10:05am Depart Philadelphia, PA (PHL)

11:10am Arrive Long Island Macarthu (ISP) Jan. 11
US Airways flight 4310 operated by US AIRWAYS EXPRESS-PIEDMONT AIRLINES

I guess US does not want anybody to take this flight.
[post="237139"][/post]​

My fares from ORF - SWF were that much on a weekly basis last year. At least they realized they don't have to charge you a standby fee at that rate. Well most of them realize it.
 
This is a perfect example of how stupid the current pricing system is. And to make matters worse the trip is on a buzz bucket.

The irony is you could connect to another flight to FL or CA and it would likely be under $200!!!

This is a perfect example of why we need RATIONAL fares...notice I didn't say CHEAP I said RATIONAL. Rational means fair value.

Does anyone know what the CASM is for the Dash 8?? Even if I assume its 20 cents (I am sure it's less) it COSTS US $26 to fly one passenger from ISP to PHL--using the Frequent flier miles credited of 130 miles. I realize the actual flight distance is almost double that due to ATC patterns but even so.....they double their money at $100 round trip!!!

I had hoped US would be the leader in this whole fare restructuring, but I had obviously hoped for too much.....now I just PRAY they follow.

Although some of the analysts have said that DL's move is likely revenue negative, there are some, and I agree that over the longer term it will be revenue positive. First, AVERAGE fares will go up--perhaps not much but enough to make each flight just so much more profitable. Second, you will get many people who would look at a fare like this ISP-PHL fare and would drive instead of flying, to look again at the flights...it's just SMART business to make these much needed changes.

Oh well.....

My best to you all.....
 
State College - PHL - State College is about $550. One way air miles is 152. Yet, using the same flights to go through to Florida and return is about $225 -- all while riding on the same SCE-PHL-SCE flights.

Transportation economists make the argument that this makes sense, but to paying customers it just creates ire, venting, and chances for revenge.
 
I haven't seen the loads, but I wonder how SW would do putting one or two 737's between PHL-ISP. Especially if it would allow an ISP passenger to connect to a longer haul flight at PHL.
 
Geeze. What are you talking here 170 miles OW. By the time you deal with airports and security, flights and possible delays you could rent a car and be there and save several hundred bucks. You might even charter cheaper than that.
 
The volume is obviously justitfied to run a few Dash-8's, so why not fewer flights on small 737s?

And, the drive is long. Somewhere on the order of about 3 hours, in good traffic.
 
You would seriously fly ISP-PHL? I on occasion fly DCA-PHL, but that's only if part of a multi-leg trip and I want my car at the airport. The O&D fare is so high to keep higher yielding seats open for those making connections. This route is not flown to serve the ISP to PHL market. It's flown to serve the ISP to "beyond PHL" market, especially when "beyond PHL" includes international destinations.
 
Hey longisland2004: you are NOT showing the whole truth! DELTA has a higher fare at 1002.00. why didn't you post that? people like you make me sick.

:down:
 
Art at ISP said:
This is a perfect example of how stupid the current pricing system is. And to make matters worse the trip is on a buzz bucket.

The irony is you could connect to another flight to FL or CA and it would likely be under $200!!!

This is a perfect example of why we need RATIONAL fares...notice I didn't say CHEAP I said RATIONAL. Rational means fair value.
[post="237168"][/post]​

I suppose if someone has a business meeting in PHL they would want to fly rather than fly - MapQuest shows 2:40 driving time each way for 5:20 round trip. Driving would mean a full day shot where flying could mean only half a day.

Now to the issue at hand - fares....

The quoted fare works out to over $2.80 per mile yield - not exactly a rational fare. Of course, the argument could be made that a few of this type ticket is necessary to offset a lot of cheap tickets that give only 4 cents per mile yield (some of the sale fares to Florida, for example), and that's the traditional airline pricing model.

But let's look at Art's rational pricing for a moment.....

Southwest seems to price their lowest fare at about cost - yield is about the same as CASM (some sale fares and introductory fares are lower). So a 1000 mile flight (BWI/PHL to south FL) is about $75 (there's that $79 fare they sell). Of course, they don't sell every seat at these fares - they'd need 100% LF to break even. So they use agressive yield management, aided and abetted by the fact that their higher fares aren't that much higher. After all, a prospective passenger that can't get the $79 fare is somewhat likely to spring for the $99, $109, even $149 fare. However, if the next available fare is several hundred dollars, they're more likely than not to think about checking other airlines.

Now let's transpose that pricing model over to U. At a CASM of 11.5 cents, breakeven yield is $11.50 per hundred miles - $115 PHL to south FL, $187.50 transcon. In other words, $4 per hundred miles more than WN.

So what would happen if we put in a pricing model like WN. Call it $119 PHL to south FL or $199 transcon. Limit the seats to something like 10% on light segments and 5% on heavier segments (all for coach, of course - something like $100 - $200 more for F/C). Cap the fares at something like 2 or 2-1/2 times the lowest - $239 - $299 PHL to south FL and $399 - $499 transcon. We'd probably lose some of the lowest fare traffic (how much?) but we'd probably sell a lot more ot the top end than we do at current fare levels (like that $2.80+ per mile fare that started this thread).

Like Art, I believe that it's entirely possible that our average yield could increase. And if we're successful in lowering costs, drop the fares to match the lower CASM which should result in less lost traffic at the bottom end and more additional traffic at the top.

Jim
 
Jim,

Very well said. I sincerely think it could work if done right. I mean AS and HP have narrowed their losses if they haven't actually made money--and DL has stated that yields were up at CVG.

For what its worth, I used about $0.20 as an assumed cost for the Dash--I have no idea what it really is but I would assume a 37 seater is high.

Also, there is no way in the real world to get from NY to PHL in a car in under 3 hours--close, but one location of traffic and you are closer to 4.

My best to you all....
 
Art at ISP said:
Also, there is no way in the real world to get from NY to PHL in a car in under 3 hours--close, but one location of traffic and you are closer to 4.

Amtrak. That's how I do WAS-PHL.
 
skyflyr69 said:
Hey longisland2004: you are NOT showing the whole truth! DELTA has a higher fare at 1002.00. why didn't you post that? people like you make me sick.


skyflyr69ou :
DL does not operate N/S between Isp and Phl. at least according to its web site. What routing did you get quote from?
 
Delta does not publish a fare from ISP to PHL. You would have to buy two fares, one to ATL or CVG and another one from there to PHL (not separate purchases, but two fare bases in the same reservation).

Something interesting for comparison would be the cost and the time required to take LIRR and Amtrak (or LIRR, NJTransit and SEPTA).

One could also fly from ISP to BWI and then take Amtrak north to Philadelphia.

A comment on CASM -- multiplying systemwide CASM by one route's mileage results in a garbage number, perpetuating garbage conclusions that selling transcon tickets for $250 is destroying the airline industry.

Systemwide CASM is useful for comparing airlines with similar route maps. Operating cost per available seat mile is useful for comparing different types of planes or on different missions.
 

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