Fianl "Touches" to the Iraq spending bill

[Wretched Wrench]

I'm a conservative, having voted primarily for Republicans for many years.

Me too, but Dubya was just too much. Corporatism is not conservatism.

Sometimes Republicans be really stupid.

I believe you are familiar with the red state-blue state IQ chart/

Yes, AA retains the option of negotiating more generous pensions with its unions. So the suddenly fiscally conservative Republicans in Congress get on their high horse about how AA might "buy labor peace" by jacking up the pension benefits and then later filing for Ch 11 and screwing the PBGC (and indirectly, eventually, the taxpayers). What claptrap.

The bill just passed makes it more likely than ever that our pension funds will be progressively underfunded, year by year. The end result of year in year out underfunding is likely to be that our retirements default to the PBGC. This can be prevented by assuring that pension funds are not underfunded. In addition, the PBGC itself needs to be better funded by higher company contributions.

It's time for a reality check. What are the odds that Arpey is gonna make the DB plans more generous? What are the odds that "Avoid Ch 11 at Any Price" Arpey is gonna file for Ch 11 now, after paying down billions of debt and contributing over a billion to the pension plans?

These idiot Republican Congressmen essentially wanted to force AA to hard freeze its plans (stop all accrual of benefits) in exchange for more time to fully fund the shortfall. At the same time, they criticise the idiots in charge of UA, US, and DL for terminating their plans - terminations that (at least at US and UA) were forced because the companies didn't have the billions of cash that the plans requried.

For all of his faults, Arpey is obsessed (to the consternation of many conservatives/Republicans) with keeping the DB plans intact. Hate him for everything else he does - this is one area where he wants to preserve the benefit plan promises made years ago. And he's a bad guy for wanting to fulfill those obligations?

I'm certain that Arpey's intentions are not to make the plans more generous. All he wants to do is preserve the status quo (permit accrual of benefits) but he wants sufficient time to make up the funding shortfall so his company doesn't find itself in a UAL-style cash crunch.

And before anyone lectures me on it - I realize that the 2003 concessions exacted a huge pension cut. Too bad the idiot Congressional Reps and Senators don't realize that.

I also think The Goose is cooked. No way will Arpey propose a pension freeze, and no way will the TWU see any significant restoration of the concession paycuts. The money just ain't there. The pilots aren't gonna get their 30% raise, the TWU won't get whatever percentage it would take to restore the cuts and neither will the FAs.

I do not have full confidence in your premise that Arpey wants to preserve our DB plan. He might not want to be the guy who axes it, but he is perfectly OK with letting it die on the vine by intentionally underfunding it.

But the money saved by cutting the pension funding will be available for more bonuses and SERP funding. It's Animal Farm, and the pigs are in charge.

But, yeah, we agree on a lot of your post.

 

[Hopeful]

That was stock, Hopeful. Not cash.

So since stock is NOT the same as cash...Then ALL employees should have received THOUSANDS of shares in return for concessions.

 

[eolesen]

Yes, they could have, but did the unions ask for that, or were they so convinced that concessions or not, AMR was going to file Ch.11?

I seem to recall quite a few people were considering the April concessions to be just the first round, followed by a bankruptcy and subsequent fleecing. So, additional stock options would have probably been viewed as an empty bag, which is what it wound up being at many other airlines.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, they could have, but did the unions ask for that, or were they so convinced that concessions or not, AMR was going to file Ch.11?

I seem to recall quite a few people were considering the April concessions to be just the first round, followed by a bankruptcy and subsequent fleecing. So, additional stock options would have probably been viewed as an empty bag, which is what it wound up being at many other airlines.

UNION? What union? The TWU is a company entity who folded like a cheap suit when Carty "asked" for concessions...

Stock options were given a lopsided formula in exchange for the billions in concessions. I lost about $20,000/yr which is $120,000. I received 446 stock options at $5 a share which equals $2230. $2230 PER MECHANIC..

Even if you sold the stock at $40, you made $17840, then you subtract the $2230 for a grand total of $15620..

Stock has to hit $300 a share to equal my concessions.
Never mind the pension reduction thanks to lower salary.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Stock has to hit $300 a share to equal my concessions.

Be sure you are using the full figure for your pay reduction. The AA/TWU figure is just a start. My pay reduction was in excess of 25 percent. This was calculated by factoring in the ten holidays that I was forced to work. Each individual has a slightly different situation that will increase the percentage of his cuts, depending on how sick pay, overtime, field trips, easy hour, penalty hour, shift differential, etc is factored in.

The net effect was that the line mechs got hit the hardest.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< -----At least the man is honest when he referred to the "probable screwing" AA would give us. Something vary rare these days when it comes from someone in Management!----- How refreshing! Do you think he may be referring to our up and coming contract talks? No doubt!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---- Forget the screwing we got in the past! What's done, is done! What you have to worry about is the screwing we'll take in the future, and with the Union we have now, BOHICA!!!!

 

[FWAAA]

<_< -----At least the man is honest when he referred to the "probable screwing" AA would give us. Something vary rare these days when it comes from someone in Management!----- How refreshing! Do you think he may be referring to our up and coming contract talks? No doubt!

I don't see anyone from management in this thread admitting that you'll probably be screwed in the future; I assume that you're referring to me. As I've said before - I'm not employed by AMR nor any of its subsidiaries. Not management, not oppressed worker.

Sorry to get your hopes up.