Graduated concession table

[atabuy]

I thought the fairest way to give back would be to use a system the tax code uses to figure out irs taxes.
I used the following starting and ending figures, but it could be adjusted to what it would take to come up with a billion a year or whatever the amount needed is.
In fact I sent it in as a suggestion to the company.
No matter what group you are in it would be determined by earnings.
The table is this:
Percentage Salary Concession New salary
5.00% $30,000.00 $1,500.00 $28,500.00
5.25% $31,000.00 $1,627.50 $29,372.50
5.50% $32,000.00 $1,760.00 $30,240.00
5.75% $33,000.00 $1,897.50 $31,102.50
6.00% $34,000.00 $2,040.00 $31,960.00
6.25% $35,000.00 $2,187.50 $32,812.50
6.50% $36,000.00 $2,340.00 $33,660.00
6.75% $37,000.00 $2,497.50 $34,502.50
7.00% $38,000.00 $2,660.00 $35,340.00
7.25% $39,000.00 $2,827.50 $36,172.50
7.50% $40,000.00 $3,000.00 $37,000.00
7.75% $41,000.00 $3,177.50 $37,822.50
8.00% $42,000.00 $3,360.00 $38,640.00
8.25% $43,000.00 $3,547.50 $39,452.50
8.50% $44,000.00 $3,740.00 $40,260.00
8.75% $45,000.00 $3,937.50 $41,062.50
9.00% $46,000.00 $4,140.00 $41,860.00
9.25% $47,000.00 $4,347.50 $42,652.50
9.50% $48,000.00 $4,560.00 $43,440.00
9.75% $49,000.00 $4,777.50 $44,222.50
10.00% $50,000.00 $5,000.00 $45,000.00
10.25% $51,000.00 $5,227.50 $45,772.50
10.50% $52,000.00 $5,460.00 $46,540.00
10.75% $53,000.00 $5,697.50 $47,302.50
11.00% $54,000.00 $5,940.00 $48,060.00
11.25% $55,000.00 $6,187.50 $48,812.50
11.50% $56,000.00 $6,440.00 $49,560.00
11.75% $57,000.00 $6,697.50 $50,302.50
12.00% $58,000.00 $6,960.00 $51,040.00
12.25% $59,000.00 $7,227.50 $51,772.50
12.50% $60,000.00 $7,500.00 $52,500.00
12.75% $61,000.00 $7,777.50 $53,222.50
13.00% $62,000.00 $8,060.00 $53,940.00
13.25% $63,000.00 $8,347.50 $54,652.50
13.50% $64,000.00 $8,640.00 $55,360.00
13.75% $65,000.00 $8,937.50 $56,062.50
14.00% $66,000.00 $9,240.00 $56,760.00
14.25% $67,000.00 $9,547.50 $57,452.50
14.50% $68,000.00 $9,860.00 $58,140.00
14.75% $69,000.00 $10,177.50 $58,822.50
15.00% $70,000.00 $10,500.00 $59,500.00
15.25% $71,000.00 $10,827.50 $60,172.50
15.50% $72,000.00 $11,160.00 $60,840.00
15.75% $73,000.00 $11,497.50 $61,502.50
16.00% $74,000.00 $11,840.00 $62,160.00
16.25% $75,000.00 $12,187.50 $62,812.50
16.50% $76,000.00 $12,540.00 $63,460.00
16.75% $77,000.00 $12,897.50 $64,102.50
17.00% $78,000.00 $13,260.00 $64,740.00
17.25% $79,000.00 $13,627.50 $65,372.50
17.50% $80,000.00 $14,000.00 $66,000.00
17.75% $81,000.00 $14,377.50 $66,622.50
18.00% $82,000.00 $14,760.00 $67,240.00
18.25% $83,000.00 $15,147.50 $67,852.50
18.50% $84,000.00 $15,540.00 $68,460.00
18.75% $85,000.00 $15,937.50 $69,062.50
19.00% $86,000.00 $16,340.00 $69,660.00
19.25% $87,000.00 $16,747.50 $70,252.50
19.50% $88,000.00 $17,160.00 $70,840.00
19.75% $89,000.00 $17,577.50 $71,422.50
20.00% $90,000.00 $18,000.00 $72,000.00
20.25% $91,000.00 $18,427.50 $72,572.50
20.50% $92,000.00 $18,860.00 $73,140.00
20.75% $93,000.00 $19,297.50 $73,702.50
21.00% $94,000.00 $19,740.00 $74,260.00
21.25% $95,000.00 $20,187.50 $74,812.50
21.50% $96,000.00 $20,640.00 $75,360.00
21.75% $97,000.00 $21,097.50 $75,902.50
22.00% $98,000.00 $21,560.00 $76,440.00
22.25% $99,000.00 $22,027.50 $76,972.50
22.50% $100,000.00 $22,500.00 $77,500.00
22.75% $101,000.00 $22,977.50 $78,022.50
23.00% $102,000.00 $23,460.00 $78,540.00
23.25% $103,000.00 $23,947.50 $79,052.50
23.50% $104,000.00 $24,440.00 $79,560.00
23.75% $105,000.00 $24,937.50 $80,062.50
24.00% $106,000.00 $25,440.00 $80,560.00
24.25% $107,000.00 $25,947.50 $81,052.50
24.50% $108,000.00 $26,460.00 $81,540.00
24.75% $109,000.00 $26,977.50 $82,022.50
25.00% $110,000.00 $27,500.00 $82,500.00
Everything over this amount could be capped at 25%.
When the company starts earning money, 25% of the profit would be retunded to the employees through reduction in give backs.

 

[ualdriver]

Sorry, don't like it! After the IAM is given credit for its unpaid backpay and each union is given credit for any amount that it is behind its respective industry leaders, there's no reason why everyone couldn't just take a flat, across the board percentage pay cut. If everyone takes the same percentage, the high earners are already punished by having to give up a larger dollar amount than a low earner. If the individual unions want to help out their respective low earners, then they themselves could up with their own agreement where their own high earners could shoulder a little more of a paycut than the low earners within their respective union group.

AVEK00 please quote your source. If there is ANY group on the property that is going to step up to the plate and do what needs to be done, it will be ALPA.

 

[gatemech]

The table didn't show the amount that a 747 or 777 captain make. I'll bet that would be a little extreme.

 

[avek00]

The problem with UA ALPA's framework is that it ignores the inefficiencies within the pilot contract, which are nearly as bad as the IAM inefficiencies. UA ALPA is trying to perform damage control vis-a-vis their overgenerous 2000 contract, and it is failing miserably. The other workgroups realize that it is UA ALPA and UA ALPA alone that would likely face a contract abrogation during the BK process; therefore, IAM and the AFA are acting accordingly.

Unfortunately, I cannot divulge the source of this info. I can tell you that the source is certainly in a position to know the particulars of the labor positions. And FWIW, everything that has been conveyed to me (e.g., the IAM's reason for leaving the coalition) makes sense.

 

[avek00]

It is my understanding that UA ALPA's universal concession framework is based on a similar plan.

Unfortunately, UA ALPA has chosen to structure the framework in a way that allows them to escape with paying less than their rightful share. The IAM has recognized this, and decided to separate from the coalition as a result. The AFA can pretty much do whatever it wants, as it will come out relatively unscathed inside of BK or out.

The bottom line is that UA ALPA will NOT make the meaningful pay AND workrule concessions necessary to avoid BK unless the pilots become the majority-owners of United. Recall that previous ERP proposals gave the pilots a significant amount of stock and/or stock options. The other workgroups cannot support this position, and have thus chosen to either distance themselves from ALPA and/or take their chances (which, IMHO, are quite good) in BK Court.
---

Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

 

[atabuy]

gatemech
At the bottom it stated that anyone over 110,000 would give back 25% of their salary. That is the cap. If you make 300,000 it would be 75,000 concession.
There should be no difference for a 747 pilot than a 737 pilot. If pilots want to make more money it should be gauged on the number of people they actually fly. Not on the seats in the aircraft. In fact it should be a percentage of the revenue generated on a particular flight.

Of course these types of issues can be addressed after we do the most important thing on the agenda. Keep Ual out of bankruptcy.

This will also bring all employees back in line with what we should be making by gauging wages to earnings.

 

[ualdriver]

*****The problem with UA ALPA's framework is that it ignores the inefficiencies within the pilot contract, which are nearly as bad as the IAM inefficiencies. UA ALPA is trying to perform damage control vis-a-vis their overgenerous 2000 contract, and it is failing miserably.*********

No doubt hardball negotiations are taking place. However, I would imagine that assuming negotiations are taking place for concessions, that a union would rather give up pay vs. work rules. I think that work rules would be harder to get back than raises in pay. Further, there isn't one employee on the UAL property that has inefficiences as you call them in their work rules. Not one employee. To imply that ALPA and the IAM are the only ones with items that need to be addressed is ridiculous.


****The other workgroups realize that it is UA ALPA and UA ALPA alone that would likely face a contract abrogation during the BK process; therefore, IAM and the AFA are acting accordingly.*****

What a crock! Yes, the IAM and the AFA can see that ALPA is allegedly negotiating so badly that they're acting accordingly. Yes, ALPA has such a history of doing such things! If only our ALPA leaders had the insight that the IAM and AFA leadership have. The IAM just got an INDUSTRY LEADING contract, including 7% interest on their packpay, yet there's no way the IAM would face a likely contract abrogation? Please tell me more...

*******Unfortunately, I cannot divulge the source of this info. I can tell you that the source is certainly in a position to know the particulars of the labor positions. And FWIW, everything that has been conveyed to me (e.g., the IAM's reason for leaving the coalition) makes sense***********

Unfortunately, as I found out during the our last ERP we had lots of members with super double secret inside infomormation and ALL of it turned out to be false. I'll use history as my guide pertaining to your unverifiable information as well.

Instead of posting this stuff, why don't you just wait until the FACTS come out? I'd be happy to eat crow if my statements are proved wrong, but at least I'm waiting to get the info before I start the finger pointing!

 

[gatemech]

atabuy,

Sorry. Missed that. Brainf*rt.

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/13/2002 1152 AM avek00 wrote:

The bottom line is that UA ALPA will NOT make the meaningful pay AND workrule concessions necessary to avoid BK unless the pilots become the majority-owners of United. Recall that previous ERP proposals gave the pilots a significant amount of stock and/or stock options.
----------------
[/blockquote]

You can not possibly be this misinformed. I'm starting to believe that you are, in fact, throwing these fire bomb theories of your because of some agenda. Might have something to do with the cutesy little CAL tag on your post. I have the previous ERP in front of me. The pilots were to get approx 9.75% of the fully diluted stock in the form of options. The option price was to be set before the ratification of the deal. The estimated value of these options, even if the stock price went up $20 a share, would still be significantly less than the wage cuts. The options were to be issued in a cashless Brokered arangement. We would say cash in my options, the company would sell our stock and we'd get the differance. WE WOULD GET NO ADDITIONAL VOTING INTEREST OR POWER IN THIS DEAL. Do you have a problem with the company offering stock options to the employees or is that just for limosine liberals (Corzine) and the government? The government will likely demand 33% of the company in exchange FOR A LOAN GUARENTEE! Is 9.75% in stock OPTIONS too much to ask for GIVING even MORE?

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/13/2002 11:54:05 AM avek00 wrote:

The problem with UA ALPA's framework is that it ignores the inefficiencies within the pilot contract, which are nearly as bad as the IAM inefficiencies. UA ALPA is trying to perform damage control vis-a-vis their overgenerous 2000 contract, and it is failing miserably.

Couple of facts for you. Prior to AMR purchase of TWA, who flew the most RPMs? UAL, DAL, or AMR? That's right, UAL. Who had the LEAST NUMBER OF PILOTS? UAL!!!! UAL had nearly 1000 pilots LESS than AMR. AFTER contract 2000 and BEFORE deltas NEW contract, DAL still had higher rates for SEVERAL fleets and seats. Current DAL pilots make more than UAL pilots for EVERY FLEET AND SEAT! Although C2K was a good contract, it didn't even bring all the fleets up to Deltas PRECONTRACT levels.

The other workgroups realize that it is UA ALPA and UA ALPA alone that would likely face a contract abrogation during the BK process; therefore, IAM and the AFA are acting accordingly.

The ENTIRE active pilot payrole is LESS than $2 billion. If UAL went to BK do you think the labor savings would be less than the 1.5 billion anually the company requested? Is it your uninformed contention that ALPA would take the 1.5 billion hit and everyone else (some of whom are the highest paid in the industry) would be just dandy? Quick, what percent of $2.0 billion is $1.5 billion?

Unfortunately, I cannot divulge the source of this info. I can tell you that the source is certainly in a position to know the particulars of the labor positions. And FWIW, everything that has been conveyed to me (e.g., the IAM's reason for leaving the coalition) makes sense.

Response deleted by Moderator.

 

[avek00]

[blockquote]

You can not possibly be this misinformed. I'm starting to believe that you are, in fact, throwing these fire bomb theories of your because of some agenda. Might have something to do with the cutesy little CAL tag on your post. I have the "previous" ERP in front of me. The pilots were to get approx 9.75% of the fully diluted stock in the form of options. The option price was to be set before the ratification of the deal. The estimated value of these options, even if the stock price went up $20 a share, would still be significantly less than the wage cuts. The options were to be issued in a "cashless Brokered" arangement. We would say "cash in my options", the company would sell our stock and we'd get the differance. WE WOULD GET NO ADDITIONAL VOTING INTEREST OR POWER IN THIS DEAL. Do you have a problem with the company offering stock options to the employees or is that just for limosine liberals (Corzine) and the government? The government will likely demand 33% of the company in exchange FOR A LOAN GUARENTEE! Is 9.75% in stock OPTIONS too much to ask for GIVING even MORE?
----------------
[/blockquote]

1. I have no agenda or vendetta whatsoever against United. I wholeheartedly want the world's second-largest airline to prosper. However, I am disappointed by the unwillingness of UA's stakeholders to fully acknowledge the severity of the company's problems, and their failure to construct a meaningful recovery plan outside of a judicial context.

2. I was not referring to the ERP when I made that statement. The ERP was a joke offering by UA ALPA which received a joke reward from UA management. I am saying that for UA ALPA to make serious, MEANINGFUL concessions, the union wants majority-ownership of United.

3. I'll admit that I want to see CAL's alliance with DL approved and for Continental and Northwest to join the SkyTeam Alliance. By the same token, I want to see UA and US get together, as a codeshare for now until the time is finally right for them to combine. If those wishes create some sort of bias, so be it.

4. AFAIK, the government is not seeking equity or equity options from United. UAL has offered some of its aircraft and other assets in support of its application; if the application is ultimately approved, I am confident that said offering will be sufficient.

 

[avek00]

Couple of facts for you. Prior to AMR purchase of TWA, who flew the most RPMs? UAL, DAL, or AMR? That's right, UAL. Who had the LEAST NUMBER OF PILOTS? UAL!!!! UAL had nearly 1000 pilots LESS than AMR. AFTER contract 2000 and BEFORE deltas NEW contract, DAL still had higher rates for SEVERAL fleets and seats. Current DAL pilots make more than UAL pilots for EVERY FLEET AND SEAT! Although C2K was a good contract, it didn't even bring all the fleets up to Deltas PRECONTRACT levels.

Delta may have higher rates, but UA has a larger percentage of its fleet flying on longhaul routes.

For example, while DL may have higher pay rates for a 777 crew, DL operates few 777s compared to United, which has the world's largest fleet of 777s IIRC. Hence, UA's overall labor costs are HIGHER than Delta's, even though the UA payscales might be lower.


The ENTIRE active pilot payrole is LESS than $2 billion. If UAL went to BK do you think the "labor" savings would be less than the 1.5 billion anually the company requested? Is it your uninformed contention that ALPA would take the 1.5 billion hit and everyone else (some of whom are the highest paid in the industry) would be just dandy? Quick, what percent of $2.0 billion is $1.5 billion? If you need help, ask your daddy, he's prob good with numbers if he got you that internship for Corzine.

That is certainly NOT what I stated. I am saying that AFA and IAM could get away with only giving workrule relief, which will provide major cost reductions for United. It's UA ALPA that has to be preoccupied with wage AND workrule concessions.

I realize it was prob leaked to your daddy, one of those limosine liberal, devide and conquer to get the union vote ploys, but the numbers don't just "not add up" but they are LUDICROUS. BTW, did some pilot beat you up or take your girlfriend? If so let me apologize for it.

There was no need for you to resort to ad hominem attacks, period. As a professional, mature behavior is to be expected of you.
---

Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

 

[hommegros]

[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Dear atabuy,[/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3][/FONT] [/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Concessions are likely ‘IF’ and only ‘IF' “ALL†parties have an equal share in the concessions.[/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]“EVERYONEâ€!!! to receive an equal cut in wages,[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]regardless of race, color, creed, natural origin, BOD, Ramp, Mechanic, Pilot, Upper Management, Flight Attendant, Management, Salaried, Non-Salaried, floor sweeper, cook, and bottle washers…. [/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]ALL!!![/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]BOD, UpperManagement:[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN](GM and above)[/FONT][/P]
[OL style=MARGIN-TOP: 0in type=A]
[LI class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Don’t whine about already taking a cut due to the drop in stock as part of your compensation is stock options.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN][BR]Do your job and the stock will go up instead of down.[/FONT][/LI]
[LI class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]No hidden ‘SweetHeart’ deals, perks, or other compensation.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Everything is included!!![/FONT][/LI]
[LI class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Bonuses will be paid proportional to ‘NET’ profits.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]No ‘NET†profits = NO BONUS!!![/FONT][/LI]
[LI class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]All parties will share net Profits ‘EQUALLY’.[/FONT][/LI]
[LI class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]The ‘NET†losses will be borne by you (Proportionally).[/FONT][/LI]
[LI class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]No Raises until UAL is profitable.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Raises’ to be tracked with profitability.[/FONT][/LI][/OL]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Management:[/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 35.25pt; TEXT-INDENT: -20.25pt; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list 35.25pt][FONT face=Times New Roman][FONT size=3]A.[/FONT][SPAN style=FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'] [/SPAN][FONT size=3]Don’t add a raise you didn’t get into a package that is not there.[/FONT][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 35.25pt; TEXT-INDENT: -20.25pt; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list 35.25pt][FONT face=Times New Roman][FONT size=3]B.[/FONT][SPAN style=FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'] [/SPAN][FONT size=3]No Raises until UAL is profitable.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Raises’ to be tracked with profitability.[/FONT][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]ALL:[/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 33pt; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo4; tab-stops: list 33.0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman][FONT size=3]A.[/FONT][SPAN style=FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'] [/SPAN][FONT size=3]No Raises until UAL is profitable.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Raises’ to be tracked with profitability.[/FONT][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 33pt; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo4; tab-stops: list 33.0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman][FONT size=3]B.[/FONT][SPAN style=FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'] [/SPAN][FONT size=3]No hidden ‘SweetHeart’ deals, perks, or other compensation.[SPAN style=mso-spacerun: yes] [/SPAN]Everything is included!!![/FONT][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT size=3][FONT face=Times New Roman] [?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice /][o][/o][/FONT][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]OK, who is going to ‘cut the baby’???[/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT size=3][FONT face=Times New Roman] [o][/o][/FONT][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][FONT size=3][FONT face=Times New Roman]

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/13/2002 9:25:53 PM avek00 wrote:


For example, while DL may have higher pay rates for a 777 crew, DL operates few 777s compared to United, which has the world's largest fleet of 777s IIRC.

So what you're advocating is for all aircraft to pay the same? Pay is based on productivity. A 747-400 carries more than double what a 737 carries (can hold approx 4 times as many in SWA style comfort). 747-400 pay is approx 50% more. So what you're saying is you have a problem with getting payed 50% more while providing 4 times the productivity?


Hence, UA's overall labor costs are HIGHER than Delta's, even though the UA payscales might be lower.[/b]

Duh!! If SWA was ten times as large, wouldn't their labor costs be higher? Just so I understand your argument. Are you saying productivity DOESN'T matter? UALs pilots productivity would be higher still, if the jets simply had more seats in them. When UAL decides to put 138 seats in an Airbus while NWA puts in 148 and jetBlu 162, that's a management decision, so the pilots shouldn't be punished because our EXO folks can't figure out the seat mix that provides optimum revenue

 

[avek00]

I would never advocate a flat rate for pilots. Of course a 744 Captain should make more than a 737 Captain; the 747 Captain brings in far more revenue than the 737 Captain, and should be compensated accordingly.

What my previous post accomplished was an illustration of the flaw in the argument that UA's pilot costs are not out of line. While the block hour pay rates for a UA 777 Captain might be slightly less than those of a DL 777 Captain, United flies MANY more 777s (both in real numbers and as a percentage of the fleet) than Delta. Hence, UA's overall costs for its pilot group are significantly HIGHER than Delta's, even though block hour rates alone suggest that the UA pilot group should cost less overall.

I agree that management can be VERY short-sighted at times. That said, UA management can easily find jobs at other companies that offer compensation equal to or greater than what they're currently receiving; the workgroups are in it for the long haul. It is for this reason that I hope that the senseless posturing on ALL sides will come to an end quickly so that the workgroups can adequately protect themselves before the initiation of a judicially-supervised restructuring.