Happy Labor Day

[Ms Tree]

Well everyone is so quick to blame Unions for all of the worlds ills. The poster claims to be "an active member of Mgmt" So I thought it appropriate to give a taste of what Management constantly spews at labor.

There is a difference between the management that runs the day to day stuff as opposed to the management who negotiate contracts. I suspect he is a member of the first group.

I do not recall anyone saying they are the root of all evil. They along with the management who negotiate these contracts are a big part of the problem.

 

[xUT]

Is it a recognition of the country's labor force or just Union Labor Day?

Don't ask me, I had to go to work...

 

[Ms Tree]

I wonder if/when the unions will condemn such behavior and sanction the employees who violated the law?

Hundreds of longshoremen storm grain terminal in Washington

Hundreds of angry longshoremen stormed through a grain shipping terminal in Longview, Wash., early Thursday and held security guards at bay while descending on a disputed train full of grain, cutting brake lines and dumping cargo.

The predawn labor protests came after a clash with police Wednesday in which hundreds of longshoremen blocked railroad tracks near Vancouver, Wash., to prevent grain cargo from reaching an export terminal 45 miles farther west. In that protest, they far outnumbered officers, pelting police with rocks and spraying them with pepper spray, police said.

 

[xUT]

I wonder if/when the unions will condemn such behavior and sanction the employees who violated the law?

Hundreds of longshoremen storm grain terminal in Washington

BART protesters plan to block Powell gates today

Past demonstrations against BART have infuriated scores of commuters, who have been delayed when the agency closed stations in response to the protesters' actions. Some angry commuters have shouted at protesters, and one attacked them.

Protesters have shut down downtown BART terminals. Attacked people, destroyed property, and closed down Market street.

Which right to protest law would you like to support?

 

[xUT]

http://www.bloodythursdayfilm.com/

Bloody Thursday is a one hour PBS documentary that tells the story of how West Coast dockworkers overcame huge obstacles to form their union, the ILWU. Set in the midst of the Great Depression, the film shows how longshoremen were fighting for their rights at the same time that most of their families weren’t sure where their next meal would come from. The odds were stacked against the longshoremen. Mainstream newspaper publishers, fearful of unionization efforts at their own papers, launched brutal attacks against the dockworkers and drove public sympathy against them. In addition, politicians and the police openly used their resources to side with the shipping companies against the striking dockworkers. Bloody Thursday tells the human stories of the dockworkers who stood up against these odds and changed the course of American labor history.

 

[Ms Tree]

I am in favor of the right to peaceably assemble. It The destruction of private property and endangering of peoples lives that I object to. I hope they have video and prosecute the thugs involved.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I am in favor of the right to peaceably assemble. It The destruction of private property and endangering of peoples lives that I object to. I hope they have video and prosecute the thugs involved.

The Lynchpin of Libertarian philosophy is the initiation of force against another citizen. Libertarians would therefore oppose the actions of the Longshoreman's Union. However, Libertarians take no position on unions beyond the rights of individuals to band together to promote their common interests.

Sadly for people with a short memory it was the COMPANY who hired goons and gun thugs, none more violent than those of the Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency that roamed the coalfields of Appalachia with impunity until the Matewan Massacre where a great many of them lost their lives trying to evict miners from company homes. Matewan Sheriff and armed deputies (miners) met and killed or wounded most of the Baldwins who came to Matewan. This was the start of the WV Coalfield wars that lead to the battle of Blair Mountain and the first known use of the word "Redneck" to describe the striking miners who all wore red handkerchiefs to hide their identity. In those days a redneck meant a hard working family man with good morals, values & ethics. To me it still does. Men of goood will striking a blow for Liberty against the tyranny of the State Militia, Gun thugs, stool pigeons and coal operators.

Labor does not want Americans to forget that the 40 hour weeks and a host of other benefits were won at the end of a gun, with a great many of them pointed at the often unarmed worker. Not saying this is right, just saying

 

[Ms Tree]

If you are not saying it is right then why bring up the past actions of management? Either it is a justification for current actions or its a waste of words? You pick.

 

[SparrowHawk]

If you are not saying it is right then why bring up the past actions of management? Either it is a justification for current actions or its a waste of words? You pick.

I'll pick my nose nothing else. When you examine the historical record one can at least understand why things happen. Then one can work on remedies.

 

[Ms Tree]

OK enlightened one. Please explain how the actions of management/owners in the early 1900's help us understand the actions of the union members now. The only relation I see between the two is our willingness to use violence to solve problems instead of negotiation and compromise.

 

[SparrowHawk]

OK enlightened one. Please explain how the actions of management/owners in the early 1900's help us understand the actions of the union members now. The only relation I see between the two is our willingness to use violence to solve problems instead of negotiation and compromise.

The answer is relatively simple. It's cultural mostly. Where I grew up most families have at least one living family member who was shot at by Company Gun Thugs. The most recent local example being Bethlehem Steel in 1939. Those who were shot at trying to make a union never let their kids and anyone else for that matter forget those tales. It's ingrained in the core of who they are as sons, daughters and now grandchildren of those who were shot at.

The best comparison I can come up with is how Holocaust survivors react. Granted no one would suggest that being Holocaust survivors & Union members shared equal sacrifice. What I will suggest is that their reactions to their respective historical events is quite close.

I'll not argue that union/management use of force is every acceptable and those involved should be brought to justice and have the evidence tested, be they Union or Management or worse yet hired thugs. The America I believe in is a nation of laws and not men. The initiation of force against another citizen is horrifying to me. Oft times the answer lies in understanding why an individual/group feels as they do.

Unions literally fought for their lives, often against people who held the power of government in their hands. I don't cpondone what they do, but I do understand why

 

[Ms Tree]

I'm sorry but that still sounds like an excuse to me. 'It was done to people like me a long time ago so I will do it to people who are similar to the people who did it to people like me'. I do not think these actions are related in any meaningful way. The management of days past were trying to screw over the workers and make them work for a pittance in unsafe environments so that the owners could make a better profit (On a side note, look at the drop in fatalities once the fed stepped into to regulate the mining industry). The riots that the longshoremen were taking part in is because they did not want to have a competing union take part of their work so they decided to destroy property and assault police. The only similarity I see is violence. The motivation behind it is not related in any way in my opinion.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I'm sorry but that still sounds like an excuse to me. 'It was done to people like me a long time ago so I will do it to people who are similar to the people who did it to people like me'. I do not think these actions are related in any meaningful way. The management of days past were trying to screw over the workers and make them work for a pittance in unsafe environments so that the owners could make a better profit (On a side note, look at the drop in fatalities once the fed stepped into to regulate the mining industry). The riots that the longshoremen were taking part in is because they did not want to have a competing union take part of their work so they decided to destroy property and assault police. The only similarity I see is violence. The motivation behind it is not related in any way in my opinion.

There is an extremely fine line between an "Excuse" and a "Reason". If you view my answer as an excuse, I can well understand why you would. Perhaps my childhood was different. I spent more than a few days "Down on the Picket Line" with my Dad as early as 8 years old. Funny thing was all of the guys trying to hide their Playboy Magazine from my curious and prying eyes. As a young boy I heard the stories the men told. To this very day I've NEVER crossed so much as an informational picket line. I was raised not to and I don't. I watched the real life version of the Billy Joel song "Allentown" as sewing & shoes went first. The Mack Trucks and Bethlehem Steel ground down to a shadow of their former selves with "The Steel" finally succumbing due to the weight of their pensions. People fired @ 29yrs and 364 days of service was commonplace as 30 years got you full pension

While I can't say I agree with a lot of what is said, I do totally understand where the mentality comes from. It's deeply rooted in the hard coal regions of Eastern PA where the Molly Maguire's made their name. It lives in what's left of Big Steel in Western PA and the coal fields of Appalachia. It lives in the spirit of Sid Hatfield, Sarah Ogan Gunning, Mother Jones and my friend the late Hazel Dickens of Montcalm, WV who lost 2 brothers to Blank Lung and went on to write and perform her music in the Academy Award winning documentary Harlan County USA and the feature film Matewan.

When generations of your family grew up fighting for every scrap it's a hard habit to break. So too with unions