Heli Skiing

[407 Driver]

T-Rex, The Empire starts up a few operations on Dec 8th, so they are doing training/setup this week.

CHL (NG limited) is rumored to be training at GCHS on the 12th-16th, doing a bit of private skiing early, then starting up regular Ops on the 28th.

The other Red company (Tas-men) haven't showed up at PHS yet, but it will be any day now I'm sure. I see the guides goose-stepping around the parking lot with their hands stretched forward at 45 degrees

It looks like a great early season. haven't heard a word from the YRV boys.

CAP is correct, there's only 2 types of ski pilots, those who have bent, and those who will.... more power only means bigger loads and flying higher and further into a bad scene.

keep yer sticks on the Ice :unsure:

 

[cap]

Gambler -----that advice was 'self-serving' also. Everytime there's an accident, I "grit my teeth" waiting for a possible new regulation to appear because of it and I really don't want anymore...really I don't. 🙁

 

[downwash]

Gambler, there's golden advice from some of the best in the business above, but I'll add one personal perspective. Whenever I hear advice to keep an 'out' "AS LONG AS POSSIBLE" or "UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE" I cringe. For me, it's ALWAYS , I say again ALWAYS, yes that's ALWAYS, have an out - and that means right to the point where I'm groundspeed zero, skids level and touching down, flag on the right toe. If I don't have an 'out' to that point, I haven't looked hard enough for the right approach and landing in that area. If I can't overshoot, with reference, I haven't worked hard enough for the sweet spot. Two out of my three accidents, way back in my first 10 years, were from committing myself to situations without an 'out' right up to the end. Both bit me hard, too hard. 30-some years and thousands of hours later, my hard-earned rule remains hard and fast - no 'out' - NO GO! Work a little harder, but find the approach and the landing that give you an out ALL THE WAY. You may have to change for varying conditions, but so what?!? And enjoy the work, and the life, eh? B)

 

[Gambler]

Thanks Downwash,

I was hoping for these kinds of responses, the kind that only years of experiences and thousands of hours can pass along to aspiring heliski drivers. I'll be sure to keep my dropoff/outs and make sure I have the best approach with the current conditions avaialble. Thanks again!

Gambler

 

[T-rex]

Well hope everyone has a safe and fun heli ski winter! If I am over that way 407, I'll stop in for coffee..

 

[407 Driver]

T-Rex, make it an overnighter, and we can tap into some rare teen-age Scotch. :wacko: I'm heading over to YLW to pick up my '12 on the 12th

Gambler, don't let us scare you, Skiing is the best job in the business, other than that stint flying those topless french-canadian tree planting chicks that is..... :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

[Ranger]

Hey Gambler: Check out HAC (Helicopter Association of Canada) they have Heliski guidelines, this was made up by some of the top helicopter operators.

 

[Sisyphus]

What is striking about this thread is the statement of the obvious. The advice about the weather is rudimentary and should not come as a revealation to any pilot experienced enough to think about heliskiing. The reference to 'embedded snow' is curious. Exactly what is that?

If the pilot is naive enough to use the standard winter weights for passengers, he is likely to overload on a regular basis. These numbers may work fine for loading 747's, when the number of passengers is sufficient for the law of averages to be valid, but to use them for helicopter operations is irresponsible. Even asking passengers for their weight often understates the load. The only way to be sure is to put everything and everybody on a scale.

Power management begins on the ground with reference to the OGE charts. With at least some landing spots, ground effect will not at all or only partially be obtained because of sloping terrain or the nature of the surface. It is a huge advantage to have staked spots to go to as one knows there will be a level area on which to land.

If the weather is bad, it is better to just be plain about it rather than making obscure references to underwear. Many helicopters and their passengers have come to grief in bad weather and it is not a thing to be joked about.

It is fine to advice on the importance of having a 'back door' but the experts should be more forthcoming on how this is done.

With all due respect to Gambler, if he has to ask these questions there has to be at least some chance that he is either not a pilot or has never had a mountain course. One hopes that he does not take this advice and try to practice it for the first time under actual conditions.

 

[cap]

Sisyphus ------- my friend, if you have to weigh each passenger and each item to know what your 'all-up gross' is, then you got a pile of learning to do yourself. I'll pull my a/c into a low hover, 'out of ground effect' and tell you exactly whether I have enough power and am legal or not. If you can't do that, then you better get learning quickly. If you've been flying your a/c for some time and STILL need a scales to tell you what your a/c weighs on take-off are, or if your legal, then you have 'twisted metal and some serious pain' in your future sir.

I've probably got more 'idle time' than you do and yet I still ask lots of questions and even about stuff I've done lots of before. God gave man two ears, two eyes and one mouth for a good reason and when I think I know it all, I'll throw the keys and the license in the garbage and become a carpenter maybe. Same rules will apply there also.

There's lots of valuable, life-saving information out there that your/my peers have that isn't in any 'manual' or written down some place. Ditto for every other profession you care to name and it will ALWAYS be like that. Gambler was in search of same and he got just SOME of it and STILL doesn't have it all because the people giving him that much don't know it all yet either. Let me know when you run into someone that does know it all.

 

[4961]

What is striking about this thread is the statement of the obvious. The advice about the weather is rudimentary and should not come as a revealation to any pilot experienced enough to think about heliskiing. The reference to 'embedded snow' is curious. Exactly what is that?

If the pilot is naive enough to use the standard winter weights for passengers, he is likely to overload on a regular basis. These numbers may work fine for loading 747's, when the number of passengers is sufficient for the law of averages to be valid, but to use them for helicopter operations is irresponsible. Even asking passengers for their weight often understates the load. The only way to be sure is to put everything and everybody on a scale.

Power management begins on the ground with reference to the OGE charts. With at least some landing spots, ground effect will not at all or only partially be obtained because of sloping terrain or the nature of the surface. It is a huge advantage to have staked spots to go to as one knows there will be a level area on which to land.

If the weather is bad, it is better to just be plain about it rather than making obscure references to underwear. Many helicopters and their passengers have come to grief in bad weather and it is not a thing to be joked about.

It is fine to advice on the importance of having a 'back door' but the experts should be more forthcoming on how this is done.

With all due respect to Gambler, if he has to ask these questions there has to be at least some chance that he is either not a pilot or has never had a mountain course. One hopes that he does not take this advice and try to practice it for the first time under actual conditions.

[post="226601"][/post]​

Ummm wow.

Firstly let me try to relay to you that weather is NOT obvious, it's a cleaver devil that is conspiring against you when you least expect it. The fact that you blow it off as if a light comes on the dash when it's time to go home is crazy.
Here's a scenario. You have Three groups out and you're a fifteen minute flight from the lodge and the weather has been coming and going for a few hours. Well I guess you would say when it gets too bad I'll go home. Good thinking, but you have 1.3 hours of flying to get everybody home. Soooooo when do you pull the pin? If you're going home at the first sign of snow then you're not going to last. If you leave it too long as the weather deteriorates then you leave the last group out?
Oh ya weather is obvious.
Embedded snow is snow that is embedded in fog. The two mix and gang up on you. Sounds easy. So you're flying in half mile vis in heavy snow doing 60 kts and holding your own. What you don't know that there is a thick fog bank ahead, but you can't see it through the snow. So you eat up your half mile and punch in, good job. Embedded snow,fog is a killer, especially on the coast.

Here's an other thing, if you think that you have a level spot to land because there's a stake, you're going to end up on your side wondering what happened, I promise. A level landing will last one snow storm, then it's a mystery.
Furthermore, me trying to describe how to maintain a back door during an approach is about as easy as it is to describe how to juggle. It's hands on.

The list that I posted was cut and past from a training guide that I made for in house training, the reference to the white thong is something that we use at the lodge that I ski at. It's our game we'll play it any way that we want. We have an unblemished safety record, and we do take it seriously, so we'll keep our jokes thanks.

Have you ever done any heliskiing? I'm not trying to be too smug here, but you've pissed me off.