If you recall....

Hopeful

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Dec 21, 2002
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Remember when AA absolutely, positively, and critically had to have the T/A's voted on and approved by last Tuesday or else they would file for Bankruptcy? Well, we are back to square one and AA should have filed by now.
 
Aug 20, 2002
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On 4/22/2003 9:28:33 AM Hopeful wrote:

Remember when AA absolutely, positively, and critically had to have the T/A''s voted on and approved by last Tuesday or else they would file for Bankruptcy? Well, we are back to square one and AA should have filed by now.

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Hopeful;
Excellent point !!

IMHO, AA''s holding out hope for another "2 for 2"
(I don''t think APA will even revote, and if they do, IMHO, it will be another "YES" vote.

So that leaves it up to the TWU, and APFA.

(Sadly) you and I , and others are in a weak union, with an abundance of "kool aid drinkers". Net result, another "YES" vote, by a VERY narrow margin. (I hope I''m wrong)

AH But(saving the BEST for LAST),

APFA.
I predict,the ONLY REAL UNION on AA property will "NO" vote 65/35%
Add in the FACT that John Ward is in the "sights" of many, many APFA members. Poor JW, is afraid to "fart the wrong way", so the membership (this time) wont have to worry about JW.

As I''ve said before;
GOD BLESS APFA !!!!!!!!
I admire their STRENGHT, CONVICTION, and dedication to PRINCIPLE, so much so, that I''m "GREEN" with envy, while you and I, and others are stuck in this "quagmire" called TWU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,
NH/BB''s
 

FWAAA

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Jan 5, 2003
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On 4/22/2003 9:28:33 AM Hopeful wrote:

Remember when AA absolutely, positively, and critically had to have the T/A''s voted on and approved by last Tuesday or else they would file for Bankruptcy? Well, we are back to square one and AA should have filed by now.

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Uhh, not really.

AA has signed agreements and is implementing the concessions. No need to file for bankruptcy - AA got the $1.8 billion in savings that AA demanded. No matter how many revotes or do-overs occur. It''s a done deal. Get over it and get on with life.
 

BDLDFW

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Aug 21, 2002
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On 4/22/2003 9:28:33 AM Hopeful wrote:

Remember when AA absolutely, positively, and critically had to have the T/A''s voted on and approved by last Tuesday or else they would file for Bankruptcy? Well, we are back to square one and AA should have filed by now.
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Uh, the company made some debt service payments based on the Yes votes, and if the votes weren''t Yes, the company would''ve filed Ch11 and not made the debt service payments.
 

IORFA

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Feb 7, 2003
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Seems to me the company has 2 options open to them. 1) They allow the revote and abide by the outcomes. 2) They so no revote and then the unions sue and it is tied up in court for a very long time. Which in any respect will force them to file bankruptcy. Sounds like option 1 is their best hope. F/A''s are going to vote NO in my opinion, like the FIRST vote. Sounds like ol'' Carty and CO. really messed up big time this time. IF AA really wants these to PASS, they better start to renegotiate. End of story. If not, after they fail, they will have no one to blame, except SENIOR MANAGEMENT. They are the ones that not only dropped the ball, they kicked it out of the stadium.
 

BDLDFW

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Aug 21, 2002
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IF AA really wants these to PASS, they better start to renegotiate.
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Hmmm, sounds like blackmail.

So I guess everyone has their price? If the big issue is the trust issue, according to the union heads when interviewed in the media, I guess you''re saying that they might be able to endorse management, with the right iducement?

Doesn''t sound like a trust issue at all.
 

AAObserver

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Apr 18, 2003
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BDLDFW,

Actions speak louder than words and the unions have proven that the "trust" they speak of applies only to management. The unions clearly don''t look at trust as a two-way street.

As always, they will continue playing the "poor me" card, and then when they don''t get what they want they strike.

It''s amusing that all these mad union people want a new CEO when they''ve made it clear that they won''t stand to have a CEO that is paid at market levels.

I don''t think there is any CEO-caliber individual in his right mind that would take the CEO job at AMR for what Carty makes, much less when he would have to deal with such a miserable group of unions.
 

AAmech

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Aug 22, 2002
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The APFA and TWU are overplaying their hand! Badly! If this is not resolved quickly I expect the company to withdraw their offers to both of them and file BK. Then they''ll hand both unions their new target #''s they have to meet under the sec 1113 negotiations. Watch the lawsuits fly when union members see the pickle their leaders have put them in!
 
OP
Hopeful

Hopeful

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Dec 21, 2002
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FWAAA:

And I suppose that you will go on with life working for a company run be people who can't be trusted? These T/A's were negotiated with the "SHARED SACRIFICES BY ALL" rule. THE VOTES WERE TAKEN WITHOUT FULL KNOWLEDGE!
The lawsuits will be in motion quite soon because of the implementaion of the new concessions without any SIGNED agreements.

DOESN'T ANY CONTRACT NEED TO BE SIGNED AFTER THE MEMEBERS HAVE VOTED IT IN?

WHY HASN'T AMR IN THE PAST IMMEDIATELY IMPLEMENTED CONTRACTS ONCE THE VOTES WERE TALLIED?

I cannot believe any employee would NOT be outraged at what has happened here. Most were ready to move on after the T/A's initially were approved.
It amazes me anyone would be happy with a crocodile-teared apology.

If anyone wants to move on, then this T/A needs to be renogiated to a simple formula:

10% paycuts for all, no changes to the contract, and savings achieved thru RIF. The quicker AMR gets profitable, the quicker laid off workers can return. And when they do return, they will enjoy FULL benefits and pay.
And no long term agreement. Year by year, it gets looked at. Again any changes to be made ONLY to pay and RIF.




You're wrong FWAAA, the fat lady hasn't sung yet!
 

FWAAA

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Jan 5, 2003
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On 4/23/2003 6:43:33 AM Hopeful wrote:

FWAAA:

And I suppose that you will go on with life working for a company run be people who can''t be trusted? These T/A''s were negotiated with the "SHARED SACRIFICES BY ALL" rule. THE VOTES WERE TAKEN WITHOUT FULL KNOWLEDGE!
The lawsuits will be in motion quite soon because of the implementaion of the new concessions without any SIGNED agreements.

DOESN''T ANY CONTRACT NEED TO BE SIGNED AFTER THE MEMEBERS HAVE VOTED IT IN?

WHY HASN''T AMR IN THE PAST IMMEDIATELY IMPLEMENTED CONTRACTS ONCE THE VOTES WERE TALLIED?

I cannot believe any employee would NOT be outraged at what has happened here. Most were ready to move on after the T/A''s initially were approved.
It amazes me anyone would be happy with a crocodile-teared apology.

If anyone wants to move on, then this T/A needs to be renogiated to a simple formula:

10% paycuts for all, no changes to the contract, and savings achieved thru RIF. The quicker AMR gets profitable, the quicker laid off workers can return. And when they do return, they will enjoy FULL benefits and pay.
And no long term agreement. Year by year, it gets looked at. Again any changes to be made ONLY to pay and RIF.




You''re wrong FWAAA, the fat lady hasn''t sung yet!

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I have previously posted that I am not employed by AMR or any of its subsidiaries.

I am self-employed and (as letters from AA to me attest), one of AA''s best customers.

I like flying AA. I will not fly UA. I don''t like the idea of looking for another carrier. I want AA to survive.

Oh, and I''m an investor in AMR. Poor me.

I am outraged over DC''s lack of integrity. But there''s plenty of time for lawsuits later. What matters now is cash (and AA is running low).

Concessions or bankruptcy. Maybe concessions AND bankruptcy (nobody knows for sure). Bankruptcy very expensive. Odds are, employees help cover the added expenses of bankruptcy (anyone out there disagree?). Good luck.
 

FWAAA

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On 4/23/2003 12:50:45 PM TWAnr wrote:




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On 4/22/2003 10:12:32 AM FWAAA wrote:

Uhh, not really.

AA has signed agreements and is implementing the concessions.  No need to file for bankruptcy - AA got the $1.8 billion in savings that AA demanded. No matter how many revotes or do-overs occur.  It''s a done deal.  Get over it and get on with life.

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May I suggest that you calculate the numbers?

AA announced a 1st quarter loss of 1.04 billion dollars. That is a loss of 8,670,000.00 dollars a day. The concessions totaling 1.8 billion dollars were supposed to rectify a loss of a mere 5,000,000.00 dollars per day. Oops, we''re short.

And you actually think that AMR is actually going to avoid bankruptcy?

The numbers do not support your position.

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My main point (sorry for not making it more clear) was to refute the idea that the re-vote matters.

On the numbers: you may be right. But, then again, the real immediate concern right now is negative cash flow, not GAAP accounting loss. A rough calculation of the negative cash flow for Q1 is nowhere near $1 billion, but rather about half that. All in the quarter that is usually the worst for airlines. The $1.8 billion is on an annual basis, and it is possible, isn''t it, that the next three quarters won''t be as bad as the first?? But then again, you may be correct.
 

TWAnr

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Aug 19, 2002
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On 4/22/2003 10:12:32 AM FWAAA wrote:

Uhh, not really.

AA has signed agreements and is implementing the concessions. No need to file for bankruptcy - AA got the $1.8 billion in savings that AA demanded. No matter how many revotes or do-overs occur. It''s a done deal. Get over it and get on with life.

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May I suggest that you calculate the numbers?

AA announced a 1st quarter loss of 1.04 billion dollars. That is a loss of 8,670,000.00 dollars a day. The concessions totaling 1.8 billion dollars were supposed to rectify a loss of a mere 5,000,000.00 dollars per day. Oops, we''re short.

And you actually think that AMR is actually going to avoid bankruptcy?

The numbers do not support your position.