Immigration

[atlantis]

I guess fuel price is important. I still remember the days when you could get an ab-initio Frozen ATPL for €30,000. Now it''s over €50,000. And I''m not that old!...

Hey, here''s a question for everyone. If you could pick a license to have and a permit to work anywhere, which one would you pick? honesty...

 

[Daniel]

I am English, with myy Canadian Licenses. I will eventually imigrate to Canada as a pilot and maybe a second job. I have family so I can come in. I am not only moving to Canada within 3 years for flying. I love the country. I cannot say one thing about. Dont take your wonderful country for granted.

I know you may complain about it, but it you even start comparing it to England, then after about 5 minutes you will be glad to be Canadian I tell you. I have done lots of reading about the two countries, and I live in one of them!

I am allowed to use my PPL from Canada in the UK. I will be allowed to use my CPL in the UK. I will not be allowed to fly abroad with either. I will not have to convert to JAA/JAR as I do not wish to enter pilot employment in this country.

I shall start it in Canada.

Hope this helps...

Smoth skies,

Dan

 

[Panama Jack]

Ohhhh boy. I can see that some folks see me wearing white sheets and burning crosses.

Rotorpilot wrote:

"In Toronto you can find taxi drivers with University Diplomas almost of any kind we can think of.
If a direct and immediately availability of jobs was a pre-requirement, than only brick layers, cement finishers, carpenters, and so on would come in... Not the ideal thing huh ?
BTW Einstein was an Immigrant and a refugee... and yes he taught a thing or two to the Americans"

So what is your point? We already have lots of underemployed flight instructors, airline pilots, bush pilots, etc. if your zeal is to "be taught a thing or two".

To set the record straight, I am neither a racist nor anti-immigration. In fact, my wife is a non-white immigrant and I have lived and flown in a number of other countries.

"Oh boy", you say. "What a hypocrite you are Panama Jack."

Not quite. In my wife''s home country I hold permanent resident status. I can live, work, and pay taxes there (just like Canada). I even have a University Degree and can drive a taxi there if I wanted to-- wooo hoooo!!!

What I cannot do, however, is hold a Commercial or ATP license. Why? Because the civil aviation regulations state that I must be a CITIZEN of that country to be able to participate in aviation. This was a rule written by the last dictator (back in the 1950''s) in an effort to keep the foreigners out and keep the (then) lucrative flying jobs for pilots coming out of the armed forces.

The situation of the country has diminished greatly in the last 30 years. Given the fact that it now happens to be a country with a basket-case economy (and sinking further), I am unwilling to renounce my Canadian citizenship. A few years ago they issued me a 1-year validation certificate and the local pilot community jumped down Civil Aviation''s throat, with some nastiness. Later, I worked there on an FAA license flying a diplomatic N-registered aircraft, again the same lobbying from pilots (less successful though-- hard to touch diplomatic stuff).

After that, I was on a diplomatic visa again flying in another country on behalf of a foreign government. I have the destinction of, not only being accused of stealing jobs and violating the civil aviation regulations by simply flying an aircraft there, but indeed, of violating the Constitution of the country!!! I even made it into the newspaper!

To this day I cannot fly for an airline in my wife''s country-- not because I am blackballed (always a posibility though) but because I cannot even get a license. Never mind that many of the pilots there have FAA licenses also.

My wish, in having TC and FAA work on the principle of reciprocity is to have other countries adjust their rules. Imagine, if pilots in other countries found that their FAA certificates could be suspended, I am sure that they would talk to their Civil Aviation Authorities to change this.

 

[Winnie]

Here is my crowns worth:
I happen to be from Norway, and I came to this great country of yours to find gainful employment.
I''m sure I''m not as devoted to your country as you are, but I resent the idea that I acme here to ''take away jobs'' from any Canadian. I am currently the CFI of a school in eastern Canada, and not a single Canadian applicant came up when they applied for it. (Perhaps untrue, since there were a few, but their monitary demands were should we say a smidge higher than what I dreamt of asking). Now I don''t mean to say you should not have a choice to throw me out if you don''t want me here, but atleast I''m producing new pilots to come out into your market, when there is room for them. And also, I bet that the next person to take this Job won''t be Canadian either, because the pay sucks, and who are willing to get 250hours of PIC in a helicopter only to get a Class 4, and work for practically nothing?
I think this country is perhaps one of the greatest to live in, in someways even better than my own (Prices and taxes) but, when my time is up, I''ll move on, and then some Canadian can come here and take my Job.

Anybody interested?
Give me a PM and I''ll get in touch

 

[Number1]

Twotter

I just read your post again and am wondering, since you started this...how do YOU feel about it?

 

[Number1]

Panama J
I always thought there was a certain amount of reciprocity (and not) between aviation license issuing states. Licenses that required a spin on the flight test for example could be converted, others could not. I used to hold two European PPLs and when I converted to Cdn, it was easier to use the UK license as the other one was not accepted. This was in the late 1900s...er..1980s. This may all have changed now.
Your story is fascinating and I am sympathetic to the situation. I can imagine that living in your wife''s country is where you would like to be. Can you confirm then that a (I am guessing) Mexican national with a Mexican license can indeed convert to a Canadian license. Unfortunately I could never see Transport and/or Immigration cooperating on denying or granting a Mexican entry into Canada and/or a commercial pilot''s license, that would be even more complex a problem than this sentence is.........
Are there still licenses that are not accepted in Canada (Transylvania, Timbuktu, NeverNeverLand etc..)

 

[Randy_G]

Atlantis, sorry I misread your post. I get it now.

Yes you would have to convert a JAA license, but I do believe it''s a whole lot less expensive here. The cost of the medical over there would cover most of the costs here. Then there are the exam costs, and the a/c costs. Take into consideration that the exchange rate favours Europeans, well that''s what I meant by it ain''t cheap to convert to JAA.

For me I would love to move back to Oz. I have the license, and the right to work, but alas way fewer jobs there than here. I love flying here, but I love the country Downunda. Especially when we were living close to one of the best beaches in the world. *drool* Ahh Surfers Paradise.

Cheers

 

[inverter]

I wonder..... if some of you are upset with non-canadiens taking your jobs because they did, or because they tried to get a job and you didn''t. And hence got hired?

 

[cap]

Atlantis-----no I don''t think so. The average Canadian pilot is just looking for fairness all across the board. They get upset when:

1) We allow anyone that qualifies, to fly in Canada, but their countries won''t reciprocate

2) When aboriginals in Canada get the flying courses paid for by the Feds and the rest of the population doesn''t.

3) When any pilot, immigrant or not, indicates that he will work for nothing or very little and the rest are told that they are lazy because of that.

Fix those problems and I doubt this subject would be discussed here.

 

[atlantis]

1) I don''t knows the details of what the books say but if that is the situation, then something should be done.

2) Not fair at all. Again, I don''t know the details of the Canadian culture, but it sounds unfair to me. I applied for a Canadian college and I noticed that the form mentioned there were a few seats for black people. It said it in a very correct manner of course...but that''s basically what it said. That''s racism and it''s wrong.

3) In any industry where there''s more people to employ, then jobs available, this kind of thing happens. I bet most pilots wouldn''t mind flying for AC or another major for free for as long as they could afford it, just to get that experience on their resume and those hours logged. Until all those retirements that every flying school mentions on their website ( ) happen, things won''t change. That''s my guess...

 

[albator]

twotter!
stop crying baby
how many point do you get from being a pilot as far as the immigration appli. is concerned?
1.
Big deal, what are you talking about, somebody is stealing your job? I guess you didn''t deserve it or didn''t work enough for it.
Finding a job is tough i must admit, it took me 1.5 year to get an interview with the company i am with? but i worked for it.
Go to Europe if you want, even if you could work there i am not sure if you could pass the exams?
Don''t blame the immigrant but blame yourself.
If somebody with english as a second language get a job in front of you i guess it is because he has more to offer?
Good luck.

 

[Charles W.]

Hmmmm...

I probably shouldn't comment about this one but Cap brought up a good point.

We are a rasist Country, plain and simple.

Some get differential treatment based on their genes.

I am carrying the genes of savages that roamed this big country hundreds of years ago.

I will not hold a status card and take unfair advantage of being part savage because I abhor taking unfair advantage of my fellow man. ( occasionaly I have taken unfair advantage of my fellow woman, but that is another subject all together.)

As to the JAA / JAR requirements they are far more bureaucratic and far more difficult to deal with....But hang in there Transport Canada is catching up real fast.

I have worked in many, many Countries and flown almost every devise made by man and never, never used my being part savage to get a job.

One more thought... Look around and you will have more to worry about than the odd immigrant taking a job, the way things are going there will be lots of you looking for work outside Aviation...the whole world is going to hell in a hurry as far as flying jobs go.

Reverend Chas W...Retired Merc.

 

[twotter]

----------------
On 4/18/2003 6:16:07 PM albator wrote:

twotter!
stop crying baby
----------------​

Obviously some have misinterpereted what I was questioning here. I have no reason to cry like a baby. I''ve been in this business for 27 years so am far from looking for that elusive first job.

I was merely wanting to know what the rest of you thought on the subject and trying to stimulate some discussion on it.

Personally, I feel that as long as we have underemployed/unemployed people who already live here we should not be allowing more immigration by people who''s profession is the same. Wait until there is a shortage and then let them immigrate. Why compound a problem??

I am far from against immigration by people who''s skills can be put to use in our fine country, what I am against is allowing people to come and compound a problem that already exists.

Anyone who thinks this ranks up there with the white sheets and burning crosses should take a long hard look at the reality. It is tough to get a start in this business and I just think we should look after those who are already in this country first.

Cheers..

 

[Rosco]

I agree with Twotter 120%
We have to take care of our own first. We have Veterans who have fought like hell to get the freedoms we now enjoy and yet most of them are on the poverty line or living in cardboard boxes....what the *^&* is up with that. We let foreigners in by the droves and support them and their families yet we cant take care of single moms with dependent children.

We train and educate foreigners yet we cant give our educated and umployed citizens first crack at the job because of fearing reprisals from the human rights tribunal.

LETS LOOK AFTER OUR OWN FIRST.

R