Is USAirways hostile takeover Of AA for Real?

[PITbull]

I have been following with interest the media reports detailing American Airlines bankruptcy and US Airways attempts to inject itself into the process.

US Airways is courting American’s trade unions and whispering sweet nothings about how a merger would benefit workers. But US Airways is a faithless suitor. Speaking from my personal experience at the bargaining table at USAirways, you can't even trust 10% of what they say. We too negotiated a restructuring agreement OUTSIDE of bankruptcy in 2002, post 9/11. And after giving them what they convinced us they needed to survive, and after all of labor signed, sealed and delivered ratified agreements, USAirways flew into bankruptcy (their first one). Once again, after they convinced us that they needed more to survive, and that if we didn't give them what they needed again, we would liquidate. And again, we gave them NEW ratified agreements. Eighteen months later, USAirways flew into bankruptcy again ( bankruptcy #2 for those of you who don't know our history).

AA labor unions need no further proof than the company’s track record in its relationship with US Airways unions. Thousands of us vividly remember 2005. That was the year US Airways labor groups ratified contracts that froze the pension plans, all in an effort to help the company achieve the cost savings it needed during bankruptcy. Just five days later, US Airways asked the court to terminate the pension plans, divorcing itself from employees and dumping pension costs on taxpayers. It was slap in the face to thousands of union workers who were committed to saving the airline. To add insult to injury, a year later, US Airways managed to find $11 billion, money that the company hoped to use in its failed attempt to purchase Delta.

American Airlines workers must stick together and not be swayed by empty promises.

 

[CMH_GSE]

I have been following with interest the media reports detailing American Airlines bankruptcy and US Airways attempts to inject itself into the process.

US Airways is courting American’s trade unions and whispering sweet nothings about how a merger would benefit workers. But US Airways is a faithless suitor. Speaking from my personal experience at the bargaining table at USAirways, you can't even trust 10% of what they say. We too negotiated a restructuring agreement OUTSIDE of bankruptcy in 2002, post 9/11. And after giving them what they convinced us they needed to survive, and after all of labor signed, sealed and delivered ratified agreements, USAirways flew into bankruptcy (their first one). Once again, after they convinced us that they needed more to survive, and that if we didn't give them what they needed again, we would liquidate. And again, we gave them NEW ratified agreements. Eighteen months later, USAirways flew into bankruptcy again ( bankruptcy #2 for those of you who don't know our history).

AA labor unions need no further proof than the company’s track record in its relationship with US Airways unions. Thousands of us vividly remember 2005. That was the year US Airways labor groups ratified contracts that froze the pension plans, all in an effort to help the company achieve the cost savings it needed during bankruptcy. Just five days later, US Airways asked the court to terminate the pension plans, divorcing itself from employees and dumping pension costs on taxpayers. It was slap in the face to thousands of union workers who were committed to saving the airline. To add insult to injury, a year later, US Airways managed to find $11 billion, money that the company hoped to use in its failed attempt to purchase Delta.

American Airlines workers must stick together and not be swayed by empty promises.

Stick together and do.....What exactly? The employees, rank and file, will have zero say in a merger either way. This is managment and the creditors parade, we are all just riding on the float waving to the crowd.
I'll admit it's a pretty sad state of things when a merger with a twice BK'd airline is looking better than any other alternative.

 

[wings396]

I'm sure that you realize that all of the things you mentioned in 2005 took place under the old US CCY crowd. Due to the length of most of the contracts, many of us are still bound by thier rules, and wages.

 

[malikie]

She understands. She Just has a bone to grind with the curent management and will place everything prior to the merger on them even thought the US Airways she use to work for no longer exists.

 

[john john]

I'm sure that you realize that all of the things you mentioned in 2005 took place under the old US CCY crowd. Due to the length of most of the contracts, many of us are still bound by thier rules, and wages.

A lot of the same people form upper management are still around and actively in negotiation and bargaining for management

 

[cltrat]

Stick together and do.....What exactly? The employees, rank and file, will have zero say in a merger either way. This is managment and the creditors parade, we are all just riding on the float waving to the crowd.
I'll admit it's a pretty sad state of things when a merger with a twice BK'd airline is looking better than any other alternative.

this pretty much sums it up, Parker isn't going to call me for my opinion nor is Horton going to ask any of yours. We are all just along for the ride, on the outside it looks like combining two piles of feces and hoping it turns into a bundle of roses. Heaven help us all!

 

[PITbull]

Stick together and do.....What exactly? The employees, rank and file, will have zero say in a merger either way. This is managment and the creditors parade, we are all just riding on the float waving to the crowd.
I'll admit it's a pretty sad state of things when a merger with a twice BK'd airline is looking better than any other alternative.

This is the point. Its not an alternative. The same players that were at our table, are still at the table. Some of the middle managment have moved up into those seats trained by none other than Jerry Glass himself. C. Simone now moves up to Senior Director of HR. She was a supervisor when I first was in the leadership position. It was amazing to watch...at the end of evey ratified agreement these managers got rewarded by moving up in the ranks of managment.

No my friend, zebra doesn't change its colors. The culture of mistrust and bad employee ralationship still exists.

Think about this. When America West and US Airways merged in 2005, the airlines touted the many benefits such an alliance would bring, including low operating costs, greater efficiency, and a fusion of the strengths of two distinct companies. But today, US Airways’ labor groups are still divided as if the merger never happened. The companies missed their goal of integrating the two workforces within three years of the merger. Currently, US Air has two distinct pilots and flight attendants unions, and as of May 2012, the airline has failed to approve new labor contracts. Everybody knows hindsight is twenty-twenty. But American Airlines workers have a chance to learn from the mistakes of previous hostile airline takeovers. They do not have to go through the same exhausting experience of US Air and America West employees.

If I were again wearing my union hat, I would be asking the following? Is US AIRWAYS sincere in promising fewer concessions to AA labor groups when its own labor relations are a fractured fairytale? What happens to employee pensions and who assumes liability? How can you afford this merger if you don’t have enough money to ratify your own union contracts?
Do you folks really believe that USAirways labor will keep your frozen pensions intack and support that, while they had their pensions frozen and then TERMINATED???? How do you folks work that out????

USAirways is not an alternative, no way, no how.

 

[PITbull]

There is no division among liars. USiarways treats everyone the same. Its goal is to line the pockets of senior mangement. period.

Typical example as we walk done memory lane:


WHAT US AIRWAYS SAID – while in bankruptcy 1: "We won’t terminate our leases at Greater Pittsburgh International Airport.
WHAT US AIRWAYS DID – Emerged from bankruptcy and in a record 20 minutes terminated more than 40 gate leases, setting the stage for the airline to “downsize” 10,000 jobs, eliminate a hub and foist on taxpayers a multi-million price tag to finish paying off an airport that was built, tailor-built for USAirways, and the way USAirways wantd.
$500 plus for western Pennysylvania taxpayers to cough up.

If I were again wearing my union hat, I would be asking the following? Is US AIRWAYS sincere in promising fewer concessions to AA labor groups when its own labor relations are a fractured fairytale? What happens to employee pensions and who assumes liability? How can you afford this merger if you don’t have enough money to ratify your own union contracts?

Do you guys really think USAirways is going to keep your pensions frozen, while usairways employees had their's termianted and dumped to the PBGC. Come on now...

Say hello to the taxpayers who support that now, too????

 

[Frank Szabo]

There is no division among liars. USiarways treats everyone the same. Its goal is to line the pockets of senior mangement. period.

Typical example as we walk done memory lane:


WHAT US AIRWAYS SAID – while in bankruptcy 1: "We won’t terminate our leases at Greater Pittsburgh International Airport.
WHAT US AIRWAYS DID – Emerged from bankruptcy and in a record 20 minutes terminated more than 40 gate leases, setting the stage for the airline to “downsize” 10,000 jobs, eliminate a hub and foist on taxpayers a multi-million price tag to finish paying off an airport that was built, tailor-built for USAirways, and the way USAirways wantd.
$500 plus for western Pennysylvania taxpayers to cough up.

If I were again wearing my union hat, I would be asking the following? Is US AIRWAYS sincere in promising fewer concessions to AA labor groups when its own labor relations are a fractured fairytale? What happens to employee pensions and who assumes liability? How can you afford this merger if you don’t have enough money to ratify your own union contracts?

Do you guys really think USAirways is going to keep your pensions frozen, while usairways employees had their's termianted and dumped to the PBGC. Come on now...

Say hello to the taxpayers who support that now, too????

From the outset of US Air's BS, I thought it was something contrived by both Horton and Parker to get unions "on board" and then really rake us over the coals. I still believe that.

 

[mike33]

A lot of the same people form upper management are still around and actively in negotiation and bargaining for management

They are?.......the only one i can think of is Al H........... Do you have another?

 

[CMH_GSE]

This is the point. Its not an alternative. The same players that were at our table, are still at the table. Some of the middle managment have moved up into those seats trained by none other than Jerry Glass himself. C. Simone now moves up to Senior Director of HR. She was a supervisor when I first was in the leadership position. It was amazing to watch...at the end of evey ratified agreement these managers got rewarded by moving up in the ranks of managment.

No my friend, zebra doesn't change its colors. The culture of mistrust and bad employee ralationship still exists.

Think about this. When America West and US Airways merged in 2005, the airlines touted the many benefits such an alliance would bring, including low operating costs, greater efficiency, and a fusion of the strengths of two distinct companies. But today, US Airways’ labor groups are still divided as if the merger never happened. The companies missed their goal of integrating the two workforces within three years of the merger. Currently, US Air has two distinct pilots and flight attendants unions, and as of May 2012, the airline has failed to approve new labor contracts. Everybody knows hindsight is twenty-twenty. But American Airlines workers have a chance to learn from the mistakes of previous hostile airline takeovers. They do not have to go through the same exhausting experience of US Air and America West employees.

If I were again wearing my union hat, I would be asking the following? Is US AIRWAYS sincere in promising fewer concessions to AA labor groups when its own labor relations are a fractured fairytale? What happens to employee pensions and who assumes liability? How can you afford this merger if you don’t have enough money to ratify your own union contracts?
Do you folks really believe that USAirways labor will keep your frozen pensions intack and support that, while they had their pensions frozen and then TERMINATED???? How do you folks work that out????

USAirways is not an alternative, no way, no how.

You may not think it is an alternative, but the creditors, who will be making the decisions btw, have a different view. They are all about getting as much money back as possible, they don't care HOW they get it, they only care about HOW MUCH they get. They couldn't care less about the carnage that will be left by a merger as long as they get paid.

 

[signals]

She understands. She Just has a bone to grind with the curent management and will place everything prior to the merger on them even thought the US Airways she use to work for no longer exists.

How come everyone who makes sense has a bone to grind with US or their brilliant management? The merger kool ade is pretty strong this season!

They forgot when their management charged $2 for Cokes. Sure the mastermind got fired, but that doesn't mean that Parker didn't approve.

 

[signals]

This is the point. Its not an alternative. The same players that were at our table, are still at the table. Some of the middle managment have moved up into those seats trained by none other than Jerry Glass himself. C. Simone now moves up to Senior Director of HR. She was a supervisor when I first was in the leadership position. It was amazing to watch...at the end of evey ratified agreement these managers got rewarded by moving up in the ranks of managment.

No my friend, zebra doesn't change its colors. The culture of mistrust and bad employee ralationship still exists.

Think about this. When America West and US Airways merged in 2005, the airlines touted the many benefits such an alliance would bring, including low operating costs, greater efficiency, and a fusion of the strengths of two distinct companies. But today, US Airways’ labor groups are still divided as if the merger never happened. The companies missed their goal of integrating the two workforces within three years of the merger. Currently, US Air has two distinct pilots and flight attendants unions, and as of May 2012, the airline has failed to approve new labor contracts. Everybody knows hindsight is twenty-twenty. But American Airlines workers have a chance to learn from the mistakes of previous hostile airline takeovers. They do not have to go through the same exhausting experience of US Air and America West employees.

If I were again wearing my union hat, I would be asking the following? Is US AIRWAYS sincere in promising fewer concessions to AA labor groups when its own labor relations are a fractured fairytale? What happens to employee pensions and who assumes liability? How can you afford this merger if you don’t have enough money to ratify your own union contracts?
Do you folks really believe that USAirways labor will keep your frozen pensions intack and support that, while they had their pensions frozen and then TERMINATED???? How do you folks work that out????

USAirways is not an alternative, no way, no how.

This all makes sense, but the US PR is hard at work on these boards lately. You see, or seen, it on the inside. I have given my opinion on the outside, but they don't want to hear it.

Thank-you!

 

[700UW]

Harbinson

 

[xUT]

There is no division among liars. USiarways treats everyone the same. Its goal is to line the pockets of senior mangement. period.

Typical example as we walk done memory lane:


WHAT US AIRWAYS SAID – while in bankruptcy 1: "We won’t terminate our leases at Greater Pittsburgh International Airport.
WHAT US AIRWAYS DID – Emerged from bankruptcy and in a record 20 minutes terminated more than 40 gate leases, setting the stage for the airline to “downsize” 10,000 jobs, eliminate a hub and foist on taxpayers a multi-million price tag to finish paying off an airport that was built, tailor-built for USAirways, and the way USAirways wantd.
$500 plus for western Pennysylvania taxpayers to cough up.

If I were again wearing my union hat, I would be asking the following? Is US AIRWAYS sincere in promising fewer concessions to AA labor groups when its own labor relations are a fractured fairytale? What happens to employee pensions and who assumes liability? How can you afford this merger if you don’t have enough money to ratify your own union contracts?

Do you guys really think USAirways is going to keep your pensions frozen, while usairways employees had their's termianted and dumped to the PBGC. Come on now...

Say hello to the taxpayers who support that now, too????

From the outset of US Air's BS, I thought it was something contrived by both Horton and Parker to get unions "on board" and then really rake us over the coals. I still believe that.

Investors and the BOD/CEO/Executives relish the division of labor. IIRC, USAirways Unions haven't had a contract since emerging from BK. To add another layer of labor fractionalization
is a guaranteed 'additional' 10 year labor cost lock for all sides.
While everyone fights for seniority and fences, the company will reap reduced labor costs for a decade.
Don't jump on the 'merger wagon' quickly. Even if it's in writing and agreed to by all parties doesn't mean it's legal or cast in stone.
Just my 2 cents!
Good Luck Guys N' Gals!
JMHO,
B) xUT