Is USAirways hostile takeover Of AA for Real?

[diamondcutter]

I have been saying this since the first legacy carrier went into BK twice back in 2002, (US Airways). And I went on the DL boards, and UA boards, and AA boards shutting this at the roof tops! I had a front row seat in all this mess,got baptized in it, and experienced it first hand. Couldn't do a damn thin in BK.
BK was US Airways trump card and Jerry union-buster Glass was heading the management clan at US Airways when all this "union-busting" contracts began. The laws in BK protect corporations, and judges can throw out contracts. US Airways employees still are the lowest paid of the legacy carriers, and have the worst labor-relations going on a decade now. Some of those employees that are posting on this board are so accustomed to the torment that they are desensitized by it.

This BK crap will permeate into local and state governments who can also go into BK and wipe out government worker contracts. This movement is all about busting unions and bringing workers into slave labor contracts by forcing labor to either take the "last offer" or risk abrogation just because those in control have made mistakes and can't are unable to honor the contracts that they negotiated. That's why my mantra is a "deal is never really a deal" because the trump card for corporations is a Chapter 11 reorganization where all bets are off!

AA just happens to be the last legacy in this industry to go into BK...where have you been when all this was going on this past decade with US Airways, DL, UA, NW, CO? Can we see it???...hell yea!

The entire Airline labor industry has given up hundreds of billions of dollars in concessions, job losses over the past decade. And the employees can't change jobs, because the current economy has no jobs to absorb these folks. Heck, US Airways f/as are no longer in BK, haven't been in 7 years, aren't permitted to go into bk again, and the f/as needed a federal mediator to negotiate a T/Afor pete's sakes , and that mediator basically told them that they can't push US Airways any further for increases and better working conditions???....what's that about???? What happend to the right to strike????
Doesn't exist! The mediator basically told the f/as group at US Airways, you need to send out this T/A to your members NOW. Meanwhile, the f/as still are the lowest paid even with this T/A pending a vote.

The sacrifices given haven't translated to anything for labor except the "same old/ same old"...and the fat cats get richer, call the shots, and boldly go where no one else has gone with their arrogance.


US Airways wrote the book on how do screw labor in BK, and AA unions are nuttts to think they will get any kind of better deal with Parker..in light of the fact that US Aiways employees have never had such a thing.. just demonstrates the desparation in all these folks who have no protections whether inside or outside BK, whether union or not.

I agree with most of your post. However if you are goin on an hr. rate if passed we will be # 2 behind CO. This does not include SW only legacy. I will be voting yes , I want my 5.00 an hr increase on DOS, and 100% sick pay . CO has no duty rigs all hard time. UA is paid 4.00 less if this passes. Do we deserve more after all this S#%^ , hell yes!!! Like you said no self help , NMB ruled and that Sux. So here we are.....

 

[737823]

I replied to a post about me, you on the other hand post DL this, DL that when no one is saying a world about DL.

I have no spat with PItbull, I know her in real life and we are friends, are you having comprehension problems?

Go back to USAir and discuss stock clerk matters and the union you have such a strong affection for. AA is a real airline unlike USAir with trashy airplanes flying to second rate hubs, go and rationalize how great it is to fly on 30+ year old 762s from Piedmont to Europe and how USAir doesn't even serve Asia.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Wow when you own the boards why dont you tell me what to do.

Funny US' fleet us younger than AA's.

So try again.

You really need to seek some help, your hate is not healthy for you well being.

And US is making money while AA is in chapter 11.

US serves more cities in Europe than AA does.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[FA Mikey]

Well US is barley making money, but guess what AA is now making money.

AA's fleet is 5 years from being the youngest in the industry.

AA makes more in Europe than US.

 

[PITbull]

You are here arguing about your credentials with people.

Yes, indeed the thread is about AA and US - and you have yet to tell me how your little spats w/ Pit et al having anything to do with it.

in my zeal to counteract negative votes from others, I forgot to vote down your posts.
There I fixed it....

WT,

Just for the sake of clarity, 700 UW and I are on the same page and always have been, even when we were at the Table negotiating for our respective groups. In fact, I have never had any disagreement with 700 UW on what he posts...because they are almost always backed up with facts.

It appears on this thread that some posters are being personal in their attacks, and I understand the position to defend a position. And you are correct, this is not the thread to do this....it just that many of us often times can't help it.

I know I get defensive as well, and I do take any opportunity to direct a response back, if warranted.

 

[PITbull]

Ok folks. Try to stay on topic. This thread was closed because folks were getting into personal attacks.

For those who are interested in knowing, US Airways f/as have a T/A. Finally a joint contract with Am West after 7 years of negotiating and bringning in a Federal Mediator. The first T/A failed in March, and now they have another one vote to take place during the month of September.

Many f/as are unhappy. I received one e-mail recently and I took some of the personal issues out. I am posting this so the AAPFA can see that US Airways f/as are still the lowerst paid and they have been out of BK for 7 years. US Airways touts that they made $351 Million this past quarter, and this is all they can give the f/a group who have been in concessionary contract since 2002...sad indeed.

AA Labor will not be saved by US Airways. They have absolutely NO regard for their labor force and regardless of what fabrication to the contrary Parker and gang may attempt to illustrate, things at the OK Corrale are not good.

Here is what he wrote about the new T/A for the f/as:

This whole union is #ucked up. – We have lost control – they replaced a narcissist with – idiots at the helm. Everything is so politicized (now International is soo involved/they are frothing at the mouth waiting for this ‘merger’- they see $$signs..hoping AA votes for AFA) –

…Many of us are exhausted fighting with them/screaming about issues to deaf ears. My vote is still no. They did nothing but shuffle some papers and numbers…but I expected nothing more from the so called ‘leaders’ at the table ...Joe Burns/staff attorney negotiated as those at the table were too stupid to negotiate or fight….I suspect C Austin was in the background somewhere…she has disappeared….- like where’s waldo…
We are hearing the same ‘ole ####…AFA wanted more..we could not get it….blah blah..AA merger..blah blah..protection for the West blah blah…
In 2004, we ( east f/as) were promised by our union, we would get what we sacrificed for this company back…we got a measly…what?? a buck and a half more than our 2004 top out date of signing (took 12 years to get this)..? paid 100 for sick but less accrual, no increase in vacation, a disparate CSD program favoring the more senior f/a, reserves seniority taken/no choice in trips at time of assignment if ‘the grouping’ is closed…separation from pilots, pref bid – got nothing for this..at all ( company making a bundle on this) – possible change in medical costs during the course of the agreement –at company digression…duty time changes for International to 18 hours – irregular ops – today – we go home and get paid for trip after 16…god there is so much more…It makes me sick. – the union even allowed the company to take back $20.00 for uniform cleaning(in January TA) – pay for training goes back to $75.00 – instead of ‘captured’ hourly pay (in January TA) – how friggin stupid can they be..?
We were not in section 6 – still in merger negotiations. – yes it has been 7 and ½ /8 years. –
Just cannot deal with it anymore.



AND THIS FROM THE US AIRWAYS PILOTS:

https://www.listbox....158095-ceef420a

 

[wings396]

Sounds more like He is pissed at his poor AFA leadership more than anything. The company knows when they are dealing with bad leadership, and they take advantage of it. I have seen the same BS only with a different union, the IAM. Our crew brought their group a T/A in 2007 that was voted down. So what did they do? They went back to the table and came back with one that contained less. Sadly the membership was dumb enough to pass this one being blinded by a tiny bit better of a raise. Snapbacks were gone, along with profit sharing ( the only group without it), not to mention the outsourcing of several small stations in the following years.....

 

[PITbull]

Sounds more like He is pissed at his poor AFA leadership more than anything. The company knows when they are dealing with bad leadership, and they take advantage of it. I have seen the same BS only with a different union, the IAM. Our crew brought their group a T/A in 2007 that was voted down. So what did they do? They went back to the table and came back with one that contained less. Sadly the membership was dumb enough to pass this one being blinded by a tiny bit better of a raise. Snapbacks were gone, along with profit sharing ( the only group without it), not to mention the outsourcing of several small stations in the following years.....

It couldn't have been in 2007, the IAM and the rest of labor were not in BK. The IAM members could have turned down the second T/A and then been released to strike. US Airways is due for a strike on the property by some group that has some balls to get it done.

 

[wings396]

Yes it was in 2007/8. This was a transition agreement for the FSA group that brought the AWA and US contracts together. It was basically a modified version of the BK contract with a few items added, and sadly some lost.

 

[BungeeJumper]

Here is what he wrote about the new T/A for the f/as:

This whole union is #ucked up. – We have lost control – they replaced a narcissist with – idiots at the helm. Everything is so politicized (now International is soo involved/they are frothing at the mouth waiting for this ‘merger’- they see $$signs..hoping AA votes for AFA) –

…Many of us are exhausted fighting with them/screaming about issues to deaf ears. My vote is still no. They did nothing but shuffle some papers and numbers…but I expected nothing more from the so called ‘leaders’ at the table ...Joe Burns/staff attorney negotiated as those at the table were too stupid to negotiate or fight….I suspect C Austin was in the background somewhere…she has disappeared….- like where’s waldo…
We are hearing the same ‘ole ####…AFA wanted more..we could not get it….blah blah..AA merger..blah blah..protection for the West blah blah…
In 2004, we ( east f/as) were promised by our union, we would get what we sacrificed for this company back…we got a measly…what?? a buck and a half more than our 2004 top out date of signing (took 12 years to get this)..? paid 100 for sick but less accrual, no increase in vacation, a disparate CSD program favoring the more senior f/a, reserves seniority taken/no choice in trips at time of assignment if ‘the grouping’ is closed…separation from pilots, pref bid – got nothing for this..at all ( company making a bundle on this) – possible change in medical costs during the course of the agreement –at company digression…duty time changes for International to 18 hours – irregular ops – today – we go home and get paid for trip after 16…god there is so much more…It makes me sick. – the union even allowed the company to take back $20.00 for uniform cleaning(in January TA) – pay for training goes back to $75.00 – instead of ‘captured’ hourly pay (in January TA) – how friggin stupid can they be..?
We were not in section 6 – still in merger negotiations. – yes it has been 7 and ½ /8 years. –
Just cannot deal with it anymore.

I hope you shared the correct information with the person who emailed you, and encouraged them to attend the Information Sessions to express their concerns. They were incorrect on at least two items:
- "reserves seniority taken/no choice in trips at time of assignment if ‘the grouping’ is closed". Reserve FA still have a choice in trips. The Future Scheuling Award and Assignment section J.7.B in the TA says: "At the Reserve’s time of processing, if the grouping to which the Reserve belongs is Closed, the Reserve must select a pairing from her/his grouping, except as provided for in Paragraph 12.J.8.a.
Example: The fifth (5th) Reserve to be processed has three (3) AVL days followed by a Moveable Day. The Reserve belongs to the three (3) day grouping. At the Reserve’s time of processing, the grouping to which the Reserve belongs is Closed. The Reserve must select any three (3) day pairing for which they are legal."
- "paid 100 for sick but less accrual". This isn't a takeaway, the sick leave paid is an increase. See this from OurAFA.org: 54 hours accrual per year. (Current East is 60 hours at 70 percent pay; Current West is 45 hours at 100 percent paid only up to 75 hours. This produces a 29% increase in potential sick leave pay on the East and a 20% increase in potential sick leave pay on the West, plus the ability to carry over from year to year.)

This may not change their vote, but at least they'll be voting with the right information.

 

[PITbull]

Yes it was in 2007/8. This was a transition agreement for the FSA group that brought the AWA and US contracts together. It was basically a modified version of the BK contract with a few items added, and sadly some lost.

That is truly sad, indeed. That should have never passed even a second time. I wold blame the membership for that.

 

[wings396]

Half goes to the membership, and the rest falls upon the leadership for even bringing it back to them for a vote.

 

[Bob Owens]

The sacrifices given haven't translated to anything for labor except the "same old/ same old"...and the fat cats get richer, call the shots, and boldly go where no one else has gone with their arrogance.


US Airways wrote the book on how do screw labor in BK, and AA unions are nuttts to think they will get any kind of better deal with Parker..in light of the fact that US Aiways employees have never had such a thing.. just demonstrates the desparation in all these folks who have no protections whether inside or outside BK, whether union or not.

And the IAM helped them write it.

 

[737823]

And the IAM helped them write it.

...and facilitated three rounds of concessions at USAir.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Actually the TWU started it in 1983, b-scale, osms, etc..

ALPA actually was the first union at US to take concessions, and US was in chapter 11 just like AA is now, and the unions dont have a choice yet to negotiate under Section 1113 C, thats the law, but hey you dont care about facts.