Jetblue Flap Problem ?
- Thread starter skyflyr69
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skyflyr69 said:
What do you expect when you outsource you maintenance to South America and other countries? Sometimes saving money doesn't pay off. Just a month or so ago, JetBlue had an engine fire at the gate in JFK. Then the nose gear problem and now this. It's sad to see this happening, because someone may get hurt and that's not good. Maybe JB should stop the outsourcing and bring the work home to the USA!
coolflyingfool
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Problems happen all the time and it is just because JB had a cery media-prominent one, that all of theirs are making it into the news now. When you think about it, the media doesn't really want a safe landing, they want a BIG STORY. I say there is nothing to worry about. Just my thoughts.........
local 12 proud
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Your right, (problems happen all the time).....and....(nothing to worry about) at least until HUMAN REMAINS are scattered over several acres, then the FAA and flying public will take notice 🙁
mrfish3726
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What was the FLAP problem??? WTB locked out, FLAP/SLAT LOCK ????? These faults are built into the Airbus CFDS maintenance/troubleshooting system. You can't blame a WTB fault or flap/slat lockout on maintenance! Common problems with water ingressing into the flap drives and then freezing at altitude which will trip the Flap limiter you can't blame on a mechanic in El Salvador, Canada, or the US. Another common problem is pilots overspeeding the flap system and the WTB will lock them out from coming down, due to the excessive airspeed. Are you going to blame that on a mechanic?? Now if a flap or slat fell off you can blame that on a mechanic. The other faults/failures are built into the Airbus system!!!!
coolflyingfool
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I flew into BHM a couple of years ago and there was a SWA 737-700 surrounded by fire trucks. When I got off I heard that the plane had its engine blow 50 miles out of BHM. That night on the BHM news there was maybe a 15 second mention of the incident. Things happen all the time. The media only likes it when there is a story, like SWA overrunning the runway in BUR. Just my thoughts............
MRFISH,
I worked at UAIR in maintenance for 17 years before I quit in March of this year. Part of my reason for leaving was primarily the direction the maintenance program was heading.......to 3rd party outfits.
We too had an A320 that couldn't get the flaps down and had to make an emergency landing. This event occurred within a few days of it's last maintenance visit to Mobile Aerospace (3rd party). Coincidence? Hardly not. MAE had to send a repair crew to repair the aircraft, which kept it out of service for a few days. Such a bargain. And that's not all. Uair had a number of aircraft make emergency landings after coming out of MAE!! Bottom line, these aircraft all had to come back for rework INHOUSE! What do you expect from a place that has 1600+ employees and only 500 are actually certificated (sucker) mechanics???? Aw heck, no need to comprehend the english language!! So what if all the MM's are in english and not in Spanish or Phillipino or whatever other language <_< ?????
If what you say is true about water ingression into the system, then ALL A320's of the same relative age, from all over the world, should be experiencing flap issues similar to this on a daily basis.
What amazes me is the high level of denial concerning the quality and safety of aircraft maintained by these cheap-ass hack shops
!! You can, under NO circumstances, expect to foster a quality environment when monetary penalties will be assessed if aircraft are released beyond the prescribed check-time!!!! I don't care what ANYBODY says to the contrary :down: :down:
So continue on with the "what you don't know can't hurt you" philosophy and I'm sure EVERYTHING will be fine. And that especially applies to you flyboys. If it doesn't, it should!! Why??? Because the cockpit is the first thing to hit the dirt :blink: !!!
Just some food for thought.
I worked at UAIR in maintenance for 17 years before I quit in March of this year. Part of my reason for leaving was primarily the direction the maintenance program was heading.......to 3rd party outfits.
We too had an A320 that couldn't get the flaps down and had to make an emergency landing. This event occurred within a few days of it's last maintenance visit to Mobile Aerospace (3rd party). Coincidence? Hardly not. MAE had to send a repair crew to repair the aircraft, which kept it out of service for a few days. Such a bargain. And that's not all. Uair had a number of aircraft make emergency landings after coming out of MAE!! Bottom line, these aircraft all had to come back for rework INHOUSE! What do you expect from a place that has 1600+ employees and only 500 are actually certificated (sucker) mechanics???? Aw heck, no need to comprehend the english language!! So what if all the MM's are in english and not in Spanish or Phillipino or whatever other language <_< ?????
If what you say is true about water ingression into the system, then ALL A320's of the same relative age, from all over the world, should be experiencing flap issues similar to this on a daily basis.
What amazes me is the high level of denial concerning the quality and safety of aircraft maintained by these cheap-ass hack shops
!! You can, under NO circumstances, expect to foster a quality environment when monetary penalties will be assessed if aircraft are released beyond the prescribed check-time!!!! I don't care what ANYBODY says to the contrary :down: :down: So continue on with the "what you don't know can't hurt you" philosophy and I'm sure EVERYTHING will be fine. And that especially applies to you flyboys. If it doesn't, it should!! Why??? Because the cockpit is the first thing to hit the dirt :blink: !!!
Just some food for thought.
mrfish3726
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E-TROn,
No one elaborated on what the flap problem was!!!!! We have had TWO reletively NEW aircraft that both had Flap drive tear down reports of water in the drive ASSY. And yes the crews on both declared emergency landings for the flaps not being full down. And it has been an issue on EVERY Airbus type from the A300 to todays models.
No one elaborated on what the flap problem was!!!!! We have had TWO reletively NEW aircraft that both had Flap drive tear down reports of water in the drive ASSY. And yes the crews on both declared emergency landings for the flaps not being full down. And it has been an issue on EVERY Airbus type from the A300 to todays models.
MRFISH,
UAIR has been flying the A320 type for a good while now and the ONLY emergency landing regarding the flap system was on an aircraft fresh out of a 3rd party maintenance visit.
Regardless of what your teardowns indicate, the fact remains that JB sends it's aircraft to the CHEAPEST BIDDER for maintenance. And that is no secret :down: .
Where I come from SAFETY and QUALITY win out over TIME and QUANTITY. There is a big difference in those two philosophies. And keep in mind that the aircraft's redundant systems reliability is directly proportional to the quality of maintenance that they receive :huh: .
Today's airlines are all penny wise and dollar foolish! The folks making the outsourcing decisions are nothing more than DOLTS where aircraft maintenance is concerned. They will believe anything these 3rd party vendors say as long as the price is right. What could possibly happen <_< ??
Go back to my previous post and read it over a few times. Then go find yourself someone who actually worked for an MRO and compare notes. Then tell me how far off I am.
UAIR has been flying the A320 type for a good while now and the ONLY emergency landing regarding the flap system was on an aircraft fresh out of a 3rd party maintenance visit.
Regardless of what your teardowns indicate, the fact remains that JB sends it's aircraft to the CHEAPEST BIDDER for maintenance. And that is no secret :down: .
Where I come from SAFETY and QUALITY win out over TIME and QUANTITY. There is a big difference in those two philosophies. And keep in mind that the aircraft's redundant systems reliability is directly proportional to the quality of maintenance that they receive :huh: .
Today's airlines are all penny wise and dollar foolish! The folks making the outsourcing decisions are nothing more than DOLTS where aircraft maintenance is concerned. They will believe anything these 3rd party vendors say as long as the price is right. What could possibly happen <_< ??
Go back to my previous post and read it over a few times. Then go find yourself someone who actually worked for an MRO and compare notes. Then tell me how far off I am.
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E-TRONS said:
mrfish3726
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E-TRON,
US AIR and AWA are both going to send your work to third party, all of it! It is a shame, but that is the way things go when they hate the maintenance employees. Good thing Frontier is smart enough to keep it in house, WE LOVE our maintenance folks. And I can't believe for the life of me that you have NEVER had a locked flap problem because a flap dirve limiter was tripped coming out of 39K feet at -54 degrees. I'll have to look up your information on the FAA website, you'll probably be proven WRONG!!!!
BTW E-TRON, aren't you the avionics (layed off lead) guy that said you'd be my new lead in Indianapolis IMC? Guess that isn't happening now HUH? Send your resume to me at F-9 MAYBE we can find you a position under MY supervision
!
US AIR and AWA are both going to send your work to third party, all of it! It is a shame, but that is the way things go when they hate the maintenance employees. Good thing Frontier is smart enough to keep it in house, WE LOVE our maintenance folks. And I can't believe for the life of me that you have NEVER had a locked flap problem because a flap dirve limiter was tripped coming out of 39K feet at -54 degrees. I'll have to look up your information on the FAA website, you'll probably be proven WRONG!!!!
BTW E-TRON, aren't you the avionics (layed off lead) guy that said you'd be my new lead in Indianapolis IMC? Guess that isn't happening now HUH? Send your resume to me at F-9 MAYBE we can find you a position under MY supervision
!Well MRFISH,
HB6 dock in Indy rings a bell....Were you that big mouth that was spouting off how all the UAIR mech's should lose their seniority under the UAL mechs??? Oh yeah. Now I remember! I told you that you would be called a "Blue-Monkey" from all the lav work I would assign you as your lead
I see that still pisses you off 😀 You should have got out of the business while the going was good.
You don't have to worry about me coming to be your lead ANYWHERE for that matter. Why? Because I "QUIT" UAIR (not layed off) back in March of this year when I took a voluntary separation, and got the hell out of this sorry airline industry!! I am happily employed in the private sector and have nothing to do with airplanes anymore B) .
You can research the FAA records all you want about flap issues. In fact, I will go out on a limb to predict that one of UAIR's aircraft will be the next carrier to grind off the nose tires after a 3rd party visit Idiot bean-counters will never learn :down:
Let me refresh your memory about 3rd party Mtc.......I was a mere 200 feet from where the U-S Airways Express B1900 hit the CLT hangar. Remember the one that 3rd party maintenance was responsible for?? I saw the HORROR first hand and a lot of my coworkers came very close to losing their lives. Why? All because of the blithering idiots were getting the work done on the CHEAP :angry: !!!!! 21 innocent souls were lost in the name of money!! I had friends that witnessed the entire tragedy and needed psychiatric help thereafter!!!
So don't you or anybody DARE tell me about 3rd party mtc being safe :angry: :angry: !!!!! I hope all the bastards that allowed this to happen burn in hell for their GREED :down: :down:
HB6 dock in Indy rings a bell....Were you that big mouth that was spouting off how all the UAIR mech's should lose their seniority under the UAL mechs??? Oh yeah. Now I remember! I told you that you would be called a "Blue-Monkey" from all the lav work I would assign you as your lead
I see that still pisses you off 😀 You should have got out of the business while the going was good.You don't have to worry about me coming to be your lead ANYWHERE for that matter. Why? Because I "QUIT" UAIR (not layed off) back in March of this year when I took a voluntary separation, and got the hell out of this sorry airline industry!! I am happily employed in the private sector and have nothing to do with airplanes anymore B) .
You can research the FAA records all you want about flap issues. In fact, I will go out on a limb to predict that one of UAIR's aircraft will be the next carrier to grind off the nose tires after a 3rd party visit
Idiot bean-counters will never learn :down: Let me refresh your memory about 3rd party Mtc.......I was a mere 200 feet from where the U-S Airways Express B1900 hit the CLT hangar. Remember the one that 3rd party maintenance was responsible for?? I saw the HORROR first hand and a lot of my coworkers came very close to losing their lives. Why? All because of the blithering idiots were getting the work done on the CHEAP :angry: !!!!! 21 innocent souls were lost in the name of money!! I had friends that witnessed the entire tragedy and needed psychiatric help thereafter!!!
So don't you or anybody DARE tell me about 3rd party mtc being safe :angry: :angry: !!!!! I hope all the bastards that allowed this to happen burn in hell for their GREED :down: :down:
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http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2003/AM5481/docket/259687.pdf
The Maintenance Technician, age 30, was employed by SMART. He was
assigned to the HTS base on November 18, 2002. He earned an A&P certificate at the
Pittsburgh Institute of Aeronautics from 1991 to 1993. From 1994 to 2000 he held a job
not associated with aviation maintenance. From January 2000 to October 2000, he
worked line maintenance with Piedmont Airlines in Philadelphia on DHC-8 airplanes.
From October 2000 to January 2002 he worked heavy maintenance with US Airways in
Pittsburgh on B737 and F100 airplanes. He then worked at Stambaugh Air Service in
Harrisburg from October 8, 2002 to November 15, 2002. He had no previous
experience working on BE1900 airplanes. The RALLC Site Manager described the
technician as capable and said he had received positive reports about him from
foremen and inspectors at the HTS base. The Air Midwest Regional Site Manager
described the technician as a good mechanic with a lot of common sense.
Please don't talk about 3rd party maintenance as if you know all the facts. Above is from the NTSB report on the accident you referred to. The mechanic actually once worked at US Airways and possibly could have been working right along side of you. Do a little research before making general statements about idiots working at 3rd party maintenance. This unfortunate mechanic who worked the rigging of the elevator seemed to be competent and an American.
The Maintenance Technician, age 30, was employed by SMART. He was
assigned to the HTS base on November 18, 2002. He earned an A&P certificate at the
Pittsburgh Institute of Aeronautics from 1991 to 1993. From 1994 to 2000 he held a job
not associated with aviation maintenance. From January 2000 to October 2000, he
worked line maintenance with Piedmont Airlines in Philadelphia on DHC-8 airplanes.
From October 2000 to January 2002 he worked heavy maintenance with US Airways in
Pittsburgh on B737 and F100 airplanes. He then worked at Stambaugh Air Service in
Harrisburg from October 8, 2002 to November 15, 2002. He had no previous
experience working on BE1900 airplanes. The RALLC Site Manager described the
technician as capable and said he had received positive reports about him from
foremen and inspectors at the HTS base. The Air Midwest Regional Site Manager
described the technician as a good mechanic with a lot of common sense.
Please don't talk about 3rd party maintenance as if you know all the facts. Above is from the NTSB report on the accident you referred to. The mechanic actually once worked at US Airways and possibly could have been working right along side of you. Do a little research before making general statements about idiots working at 3rd party maintenance. This unfortunate mechanic who worked the rigging of the elevator seemed to be competent and an American.
SilentWarrior
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Thanks for the offer. There were no such reports (accidents or incidents) in either the FAA or NTSB databases. Maybe someone a bit more adept can find it. The only incident I found was a push-back incident at PHL in 2002. This brings up the question, was there an emergency declared? If so there should be a paper trail stating such (requirement is 10 days from return to base if I am not mistaken).
A no-flaps landing qualifies as an abnormal landing at best. It is well within the performance guidelines of the aircraft, as long as the crew has a runway long enough. The crew should not have had a real problem as along as they had reversers and brakes.
In fact, I will go out on a limb to predict that one of UAIR's aircraft will be the next carrier to grind off the nose tires after a 3rd party visit
What a kind and caring person you are. :blink:
