Knowing History is Essential Before Looking Forward

[700IAM]

http://www.labornet.org/news/0203/skyway.htm



"Fear is paralyzing, but we have to go beyond that fear. With that kind of mentality we¹d never have any of the rights we have today,"


Interesting...wonder what happened to that author these days? Scared out of the industry, or still the soldier. . . . .


With the democrats now in control wonder if they can or will change labors plight. . . .


Will labor ever be what it was . . . .


Will the airline workers left standing ever recover what they once where the envy of. ....

 

[700UW]

That is three years old.

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

Thus the word HISTORY in the thread title.

If one had actually read the title of the thread one would know that.

LMAO! Aww, Bob! Why'd you hit 700 so hard? Geez...

...that was pretty good, 700. You have to admit it.

 

[PHL]

With the democrats now in control wonder if they can or will change labors plight. . . .

No, they won't. In fact, union labor is probably the last thing on the liberals' minds right now. Sure they'll pay you lip service and cater to you in their speeches, but at the end of the day what really do you expect to change?

What, exactly, is "labors plight" that you speak of anyway? I'm talking from a macroeconomic viewpoint..not just inside the walls of your own house.

If the labor-employee relations were in your perfect world, what would you change? Assume this perfect world had the same consumers who won't pay more $$$ for their product (i.e. airfares)

 

[PITbull]

No, they won't. In fact, union labor is probably the last thing on the liberals' minds right now. Sure they'll pay you lip service and cater to you in their speeches, but at the end of the day what really do you expect to change?

What, exactly, is "labors plight" that you speak of anyway? I'm talking from a macroeconomic viewpoint..not just inside the walls of your own house.

If the labor-employee relations were in your perfect world, what would you change? Assume this perfect world had the same consumers who won't pay more $$$ for their product (i.e. airfares)

Increase wages to livable standards. Most importantly, to not interfer with the laws that permit labor to conduct LEGAL job actions that give them leverage for negotiating livable, balanced standards for middle class working Americans.

Obviously, and in-your-face, when Execs are making millions from a company that is profiting, then it is more than blatant that negotiating higher wages for labor is reasonable. If the consumer is so afraid of higher wages for a companies labor groups because they are afraid of higher consumer prices...THEN LOOK IN YOUR OWN DAMN BACK YARD. Your salary should stagnate as well.

The purpose of competition, and "free market" is the element in the economy that allows for balance. There is never a time that I can cite when I was in labor where corporations who had unionized employees on their property did not move to make concessions when times were tough and losses mounted for the company. NEVER!

At U, it was not a matter of groups taking concessions; rather it was more a matter of "wiping out" employees,and poverty level concessions with little or no benefits accept "sapce available flying". That is NOT balance from a job that folks spend 8 to 10 hours of thier waking day at. Hell, major evidenced reveals this when Christmas 2004, the company didn't have enough employees to operate the airline with the increase in traffic that takes place during the holiday months.

 

[PHL]

Increase wages to livable standards.

That is a perfect world we'd all like to see. Everyone with a liveable standard. Let's assume U gave labor an average $3/hour increase in pay across the board. Would that bring you to a liveable wage? Now, I don't know how many people that would include but let's assume 10,000 employees. That's $30,000 per man hour. For a 40 hour week employee, that's $1.2M/week in additional wages, or approx. $4.8M/month, or about $60M/year.

Now, I'm not saying some of the exec bonuses haven't gotten out of hand. There's little argument there. Especially when some of them may not have been deserved. But given the very tight cost structure of this industry, how can an airline afford to up wages like that? It's easy to give a $1M bonus to an exec because he/she was able to negotiate it into their own contract. It's a lot harder to financially justify a long term wage for labor that will have a rippling, very long term effect.

My example was a simple $3/hr incease for 10,000 employees. Someone paint a more real-world pic of what would be a decent ave. hourly wage increase for U employees, and how many that would affect. Then try to financially justify it on an annualized basis for the next 5 years. Unless some more competition is taken out of the picture and prices can increase, you cannot expect it. The "free market" you speak of PitBull is yours to take full advantage of.

When U is showing consistent profits of $200M or more per year for a few years, then it might be time to go bang on some doors. But a few quarters of relatively low profits (in ratio to the revenues) is not going to really do the trick.

 

[700UW]

Gee,

We had contracts too that were negotiated, broken and abrogated by the courts, negotiations with guns held to the employee's heads.

Too bad the bankruptcy law does not allow labor to file abrogation motions for executive contracts that are way out of line.

Siegel and Lakefield's salaries were more then Kelliher and Neeleman, WN and B6 were making profits and US was losing their butts.

Why was Siegel allowed to collect his pension when all the employees had theirs terminated?

Level the playing field!

 

[BoeingBoy]

For a 40 hour week employee, that's $1.2M/week in additional wages, or approx. $4.8M/month, or about $60M/year.

I know you were just "pulling numbers out of the air", but what a coincidence.....

The "synergy" savings of having combined contracts is said to be worth $60 Million/year - by Parker, no less. Would it not be "cost neutral" to take those savings and put them into the combined contracts?

Jim

 

[PHL]

The "synergy" savings of having combined contracts is said to be worth $60 Million/year - by Parker, no less. Would it not be "cost neutral" to take those savings and put them into the combined contracts?

It's certainly a step in the right direction. But that synergy alone can't make U competitive unless they can continue to sustain significant profits annually, with projected labor cost and revenue growth combined. Profits that will allow them to reinvest into the business (i.e. equipment, maint., expansion) *AND* employee pay.

I'm in full agreement that the execs should have a more level playing field when it comes to contracts, pensions, etc. But my bigger question is - at what cost COULD labor be increased to and the airline still be competitive *AND* profitable for future?

 

[BoeingBoy]

But my bigger question is - at what cost COULD labor be increased to and the airline still be competitive *AND* profitable for future?

And that is a question that has no simple, or single, answer....

Jim

 

[PITbull]

I'm in full agreement that the execs should have a more level playing field when it comes to contracts, pensions, etc. But my bigger question is - at what cost COULD labor be increased to and the airline still be competitive *AND* profitable for future?

That is decided at a negotiating table...fair and balanced.

 

[john john]

That is decided at a negotiating table...fair and balanced.

Or in US DL NW case it is decided in bankruptcy court thru negotiations hardly fair and balanced

 

[Smartest Loser]

I guess I never noticed before but… Just got back off a trip on AA and watched everything they did. I must say, I saw professional people…!!! NOT THESE CONTRACT FLUNKIES.

Everyone was in uniform and worked as if they all had a career there. Not, a 19 or 20 year old kid working a summer job. AA had the stand-by list and upgrade list on the out bound gate screen,even the flight crews still had their leather jackets..!! 😛

I now look at US and it looks like the “Dollar Generalâ€￾ of the industry…!! Sad. 🙁