Lessons Learned: Little Rock, AR and Queens, NY

[ronaldl79]

I stumbled upon some photos of the '99 Little Rock accident recently and was curious as to what AA learned from the incident. My memory is a bit foggy, but I do recall the pilots making an approach in bad weather and overshot the runway. There was also something to do with their hours in service, but I don't remember.

And what about the Queens, NY accident. I've watched documentaries and read reports about it, but what is the real consensus here about what happened? Was the FO at fault, or was it poor design on Airbus' behalf?

Finally, is there a noticeable between cable and digital navigation systems with regard to feedback and sensitivity? Perhaps some pilots might be able to chime in on their experience and which one they prefer best.

Thanks.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Ronald-----I will only attempt to answer part of your question. The Airbus, Queens accident. I have around forty plus years Aircraft experience, including military, and in my opinion, there should not have been anything that pilot could have done to make that vertical stabilizer come off! NOTHING! So to answer your question about the Airbus, in my opinion, it was, and still is, a design flaw! But! To get Airbus to admit to that would be as easy as getting former President Clinton to admit that TWA's flight 800 was really shot down by a wayward missile!!!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

As far as LIT goes, the ORD/chief Pilot was at the controls. That will AUTOMATICALLY raise management-non management speculation(s)

Unlike Dogs, who definitely have the concept down pat, Humans think that they can "serve two masters" :down:

NH/BB's

 

[eolesen]

Gee, bears, show a little respect for the dead, why don't ya....

 

[ch53D]

I stumbled upon some photos of the '99 Little Rock accident recently and was curious as to what AA learned from the incident. My memory is a bit foggy, but I do recall the pilots making an approach in bad weather and overshot the runway. There was also something to do with their hours in service, but I don't remember.

And what about the Queens, NY accident. I've watched documentaries and read reports about it, but what is the real consensus here about what happened? Was the FO at fault, or was it poor design on Airbus' behalf?

Finally, is there a noticeable between cable and digital navigation systems with regard to feedback and sensitivity? Perhaps some pilots might be able to chime in on their experience and which one they prefer best.

Thanks.

LIT, lesson is don't fly in the rain.

Queens, airbus is at fault. The FO got blamed because he could not defend his self.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Gee, bears, show a little respect for the dead, why don't ya....

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

FM,

I don't feel I was being disrespectful of anyone !!!

The fact of the matter is, that there is a fairly strong feeling, that "the envelope" got Pushed, and Not by the co-pilot !!

How many of us, took "pot shots" at WN's/MDW tragedy, and justifiably so.
Well AA(LIT in this instance) must be held to the exact same scrutiny.

NH/BB's

 

[Hatu]

Near-crash uncovers crack in air safety system

By Alan Levin, USA TODAY

For almost five years, one of the world's largest jetmakers knew that the 27-foot-tall tail fin on one of its jets had almost snapped off in flight.

Officials with manufacturer Airbus understood that losing a tail fin would prove catastrophic. Even so, they kept their concerns to themselves until after a tail fin did break off one of its jets, causing the second worst aviation disaster in U.S. history.

Not until after American Airlines Flight 587 crashed in 2001 — a catastrophe investigators say was caused when the tail fin broke off the A300 jet — did Airbus disclose its findings from an incident in 1997 to government safety officials, a USA TODAY investigation has found.

Had federal regulators known earlier how easily tail fins could break in flight, the crash of Flight 587 — and the deaths of 265 people — might have been prevented, according to some accident investigators and aviation safety experts. The jet crashed Nov. 12, 2001, just after takeoff from New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-05-26-a-cover_x.htm

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-05-26-a-cover_x.htm

Thanks for the link.

ves Benoist, wrote that pilots needed to be trained better on how to use the rudder. "Using too much rudder in a recovery attempt can lead to structural loads that exceed the design strength of the fin," the report said.

Airbus officials say they underscored their concerns in 1997 by raising repeatedly the broader issue of pilot training on rudder use. For example, an August 1997 letter sent to American and written by Airbus, Boeing and the FAA warned that pilots could damage a jet with too much rudder.

I am not an engineer, but find it surprising that in such an event, the tail fin would fail before the would break off from the fin. Flying without a rudder is bad, but a lot better than flying without the entire vertical stabilizer.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---- The difference between this vertical stabilizer, and other stabilizers on, say, Boeing Aircraft is that the Airbus stabilizer is made of a Composite material, to save weight! Boeing Aircraft have stayed with Aluminum!--- 😉

 

[TWAnr]

<_< ---- The difference between this vertical stabilizer, and other stabilizers on, say, Boeing Aircraft is that the Airbus stabilizer is made of a Composite material, to save weight! Boeing Aircraft have stayed with Aluminum!--- 😉

What are the vertical and horizontal stabilizers of the new B-787 made of? It is being touted as an all composite airplane.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

What are the vertical and horizontal stabilizers of the new B-787 made of? It is being touted as an all composite airplane.

Not only is it an all composite aircraft I hear it is also all electric. No hydraulics.

 

[ronaldl79]

Oops. I was thinking of the FO from the NY accident.

As far as LIT goes, the ORD/chief Pilot was at the controls. That will AUTOMATICALLY raise management-non management speculation(s)

Unlike Dogs, who definitely have the concept down pat, Humans think that they can "serve two masters" :down:

NH/BB's

 

[autoplaneguy]

True, what was already stated regarding the incident at LIT.however there was an issue raised regarding whether or not the crew was fully advised of the weather situation.I was approximately 55 miles SW/W of LIT on the night this happened.There was a weather system passing with very severe storms, straight line winds and possible tornadoes reported, in my area power was out and some damage was done due to the straight line winds to trees etc.That line had not cleared the LIT airport area,and in the NTSB investigation it was stated that they were not properly advised of the local weather conditions previous to their deciding to land, but obviously also they disregarded the weather once they were in it and decided to land rather that seek an alternate or hold until the line cleared.

 

[CapnCockroach]

Not only is it an all composite aircraft I hear it is also all electric. No hydraulics.

...and, no pneumatics. But probably built with AA pilots in mind...i.e. stronger wings, gear, and a greatly strengthened tail section. If AA buys it, Boeing will have to design the aircraft to protect the airframe from trees, landing lights, mountains, taxiways, thunderstorm landings...and wake turbulence..and maybe a few other perils not yet envisioned.

 

[Mach85ER]

...and, no pneumatics. But probably built with AA pilots in mind...i.e. stronger wings, gear, and a greatly strengthened tail section. If AA buys it, Boeing will have to design the aircraft to protect the airframe from trees, landing lights, mountains, taxiways, thunderstorm landings...and wake turbulence..and maybe a few other perils not yet envisioned.

as-shole