Little chance of completing the merger.....

[deltawatch]

US Airways Coast-to-Coast Pilots Express Grave Concerns on Proposed Delta Merger

Friday December 8, 4:41 pm ET

CHARLOTTE, N.C., Dec. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- Following a meeting with US Airways management on December 6, the leadership of the US Airways and America West pilot groups have expressed significant concerns about the proposed merger with Delta Air Lines. The leaders point out that, by failing to integrate two pilot groups under one contract, US Airways (NYSE: LCC - News) management has not yet properly merged US Airways and America West, demonstrating little chance of completing the merger of a third airline.

Equally important, the pilot groups, both of which are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), International, have determined that US Airways' Delta proposal raises serious issues about the job protections contained in the US Airways and America West contracts, and are questioning the company's ability to move forward with this transaction.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061208/dcf040.html?.v=57

 

[Dog Wonder]

Nothing more than posturing.

 

[PHLfa88]

Nothing more than posturing.

The High And Mighty (Run With Our Tails Between Our Legs) Pilot Group @ USAirways! Give Me A Friggin Break! They Are Out For One Thing and One Thing Only... ME..ME...ME!!They Along With The Delta Pilot Only Have Eyes For Themselves!!Nothing More..Nothing Less!! :down:

 

[EyeInTheSky]

The High And Mighty (Run With Our Tails Between Our Legs) Pilot Group @ USAirways! Give Me A Friggin Break! They Are Out For One Thing and One Thing Only... ME..ME...ME!!They Along With The Delta Pilot Only Have Eyes For Themselves!!Nothing More..Nothing Less!! :down:

Wow, you sound like a bitter stew with a cause. What's your problem?

Later,
Eye

 

[luv2fly]

Nothing more than posturing.

Maybe by AW and US pilots, but the DL pilots will have a say on the proposed US/DL merger as they represent a large portion of the unsecured creditors committee.

 

[PhxMama]

How large? If it were that large Doug wouldnt have a prayer but since DP still feels its possible it cant be that large!

 

[BoeingBoy]

How large?

Apparently almost $3 Billion if you count the retired pilots ($2.1 Billion ALPA + $800 million for retired pilots). That's a good chunk by any measure.

Jim

 

[PhxMama]

Do you think its enough to stop the merger?

Is the total unsecured debt just over 8 Billion?

 

[BoeingBoy]

By themselves based on voting power for/against any specific POR? Probably not, though it will depend on two things -

Exactly what the dollar value of all the claims ends up being by the time votes are solicited (probably far more than necessary to make the pilot's claims less than 1/3of the total)

One factor I just don't know - whether the pilots will be counted as two creditors (ALPA & Retired) or individual creditors. If individual, that's a lot of individual votes.

If I has to guess, and assuming that DL management doesn't change their position on the merger offer, it'll come down to whether DL's POR passes or not. If it does, the merger (at least for now) goes up in smoke. If it doesn't, DL management will be looking for plan B and that could be the merger.

The US merger offer has two chances in my opinion - DL management is convinced to embrace the merger by the creditors or whoever, or DL's POR is turned down by the creditors. That's based on my understanding of BK law - as long as DL presents a POR before the period of exclusivity runs out, the vote will be on that plan, not a "which plan do you like best" choice.

Jim

 

[sharktooth]

The High And Mighty (Run With Our Tails Between Our Legs) Pilot Group @ USAirways! Give Me A Friggin Break!

That is too funny....... I'd laugh but it is pretty right on.

I hear they are discussing "professionalism" over on the pilots union forum. Kinda funny. They think they are "professional". But, they are the only ones. Management doesn't think they are "professional", otherwise the pilots compensation would not be at the bottom of the barrel. None of the other trade groups think the pilots are "professional", except, perhaps, those on probation.

I would think professionalism is more than just a pretty uniform. It is an image that pervades every aspect of the true professional.

For instance, almost every safety and labor saving device in the cockpit is there only because of the sweat and, in many cases, blood, of pilots, not to mention their crew and passengers. For pilots to allow management to say, well, we got the best equipment so that allows us to hire, um, bus drivers, is the opposite of professionalism as well as a direct insult to all those who went before.

It is past time for all airline employees to consider the effect of a nation-wide shutdown. Won't happen? Why? What can we do to allow the possibility of such an action?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Apparently almost $3 Billion if you count the retired pilots ($2.1 Billion ALPA + $800 million for retired pilots). That's a good chunk by any measure.

Jim

Not sure how the retirees $800 million is structured. It seems that these retirees may be in favor of the DP plan if it means they get $800 dumped into their pension plan vs. "who knows?" with Grinstein et al.

Me? As a retiree, I'd go for the cash rather than management's promises.

 

[Elevation]

Not sure how the retirees $800 million is structured. It seems that these retirees may be in favor of the DP plan if it means they get $800 dumped into their pension plan vs. "who knows?" with Grinstein et al.

Me? As a retiree, I'd go for the cash rather than management's promises.

Great point. People think the retired and active pilots are on the same page they are not. Its a no brainer for the unsecured retiries, take Doug's money!

 

[bigbusboy]

Maybe by AW and US pilots, but the DL pilots will have a say on the proposed US/DL merger as they represent a large portion of the unsecured creditors committee.

And you don't think DL ALPA is posturing too? They're just trying to get as much money out of Parker as well. Once they do, they will be on board like the rest of the creditors.

 

[USA320Pilot]

I believe the key player on whether or not the merger proceeds is Boeing. Boeing is chairman of Delta's unsecured creditors committee and along with Airbus is in negotiation with US Airways for a narrowbody replacement order for the B737s.

With US Airways needing a widebody replacement aircraft too, and Delta needing to replace aircraft like the MD-80's, I believe Ted Reed of TheStreet.com may have hit the nail on the head in his column "Boeing in the Catbird Seat."

See Story

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

It seems that these retirees may be in favor of the DP plan if it means they get $800 dumped into their pension plan vs. "who knows?" with Grinstein et al.

And I've been somewhat as guilty as others of lumping all the unsecured creditors into the same bucket. They're a diverse group, ranging from having very small claims (which may or may not get sold to one of the firms that specialize in buying up claims) all the way to the big creditors with multi-Billion claims.

Either deal (assuming DL management continues on their path and presents a POR) is a crapshoot. Parker hasn't said who will get how much of the $4 Billion and 78 million shares of stock.

Presumably, just as in the US bankruptcies, some of the unsecured creditors will be made almost whole while some will get nothing (and pretty much everything in between). Heck, US is still settling claims over a year after exiting bankruptcy - talk about uncertainty at the time a POR is filed.

About the only certainty right now is the total amount of the offer on the table. No individual creditor knows what they'll get yet. Once (or if) DL presents their POR, there'll be a second amount on the table, also with little certainty what each individual creditor will get.

If the time arrives that the creditors have to vote for or against DL's POR, they'll just be making their best guess.

Jim