STICKJIGGLER
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Hey there Walter, no worries
and Merry Christmas
and Merry Christmas
Local Heroes Global One
- Thread starter Dan
- Start date
walter, it doesn't matter how a guy ended up in his situation. the thing is he needs help or he dies. make your decision and live with it. human nature usually dictates you try and do your best. i've met some real coldhearted people, but none who would deny a person a chance at life because they chose a wrong path.
The Real Batman
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I don’t begrudge Cpl Jennings his medal – someone thought he deserved recognition and that someone may or may not understand the rules and regs that govern us. Cpl. Jennings humbly accepted the medal and good for him. I wasn’t there when he flew the mission. A snowstorm indicates reduced vis, but he got the job done. I know I’ve flown when I should not have, and I’ve survived it. I also know that I would not do it again – regardless of a patient’s condition. But when some of the posters here think they also deserve a medal for their day-to-day activities, when if fact they are jeopardizing themselves, their aircraft and passengers – I see red!
My beef is the attitude of some of the ‘regular’ posters here. To compare driving along the road and stopping to help someone, with intentionally getting into a helicopter and risking a crew of 4 or 5 people in bad weather to help someone is ridiculous!
Like WH, I do this on a day-to-day basis. Every time I hit the start button, someone’s life or limb is at stake. If a person chooses to risk their life, that’s one thing. To risk other people’s lives, without their informed consent is quite another.
I am not ashamed to stand here and express my views on issues that have killed a lot people! I stand on the side of safety. If I didn’t I would be dead a long time ago. This attitude of mine lets me fly everyday to help save lives. If any pilot pushes the weather in an effort to help someone, what have they accomplished if they die in the process? A dead hero, is still dead.
My hope is that all you pilots that are reading this thread, and those other threads where posters are bragging about their respective skills, don’t jump on the cavalier bandwagon. Those of us who are pilots, need to decide on whether a mission can be completed safely or not, within the limits placed upon us by CAR’s and SOP’s. To do otherwise displays a LACK of professionalism, and a cowboy mentality.
Professional pilots don’t say things like “I fly when even the birds stay on the ground†– that’s an actual quote.
My beef is the attitude of some of the ‘regular’ posters here. To compare driving along the road and stopping to help someone, with intentionally getting into a helicopter and risking a crew of 4 or 5 people in bad weather to help someone is ridiculous!
Like WH, I do this on a day-to-day basis. Every time I hit the start button, someone’s life or limb is at stake. If a person chooses to risk their life, that’s one thing. To risk other people’s lives, without their informed consent is quite another.
I am not ashamed to stand here and express my views on issues that have killed a lot people! I stand on the side of safety. If I didn’t I would be dead a long time ago. This attitude of mine lets me fly everyday to help save lives. If any pilot pushes the weather in an effort to help someone, what have they accomplished if they die in the process? A dead hero, is still dead.
My hope is that all you pilots that are reading this thread, and those other threads where posters are bragging about their respective skills, don’t jump on the cavalier bandwagon. Those of us who are pilots, need to decide on whether a mission can be completed safely or not, within the limits placed upon us by CAR’s and SOP’s. To do otherwise displays a LACK of professionalism, and a cowboy mentality.
Professional pilots don’t say things like “I fly when even the birds stay on the ground†– that’s an actual quote.
I don't normally get on the bandwagon for somebody that might have broke regulations, who cares, he sacrafised probably his own life trying to save somebody elses. I SAY HE DESERVES AT LEAST ONE MEDAL AND ANOTHER ONE FOR PDM, RIGHT OR WRONG, HE MADE IT.
Not everybody can be a hero, but for Godsake congratulate the guy.
For your added information the TC regs are not written in stone, they are there to protect the public from operatots that are making a buck from breaking the minimums.
I worked SAR when I was in the service flying in single engine helicopters over water without floats.
Everything is relevant when flying to save lives and only the person flying the aircraft can make that decision and GOD BLESS HIM.
In the imortal words, that's all I have to say about that.
Personally I hope this is the last post on this subject.
Cpl. Jennings, I don't know you, but I wish you the best Christmas you and your family have ever had. You are a #1 pilot in my book and I hope the people in your area appreciate you.
Cheers, Don McDougall
Not everybody can be a hero, but for Godsake congratulate the guy.
For your added information the TC regs are not written in stone, they are there to protect the public from operatots that are making a buck from breaking the minimums.
I worked SAR when I was in the service flying in single engine helicopters over water without floats.
Everything is relevant when flying to save lives and only the person flying the aircraft can make that decision and GOD BLESS HIM.
In the imortal words, that's all I have to say about that.
Personally I hope this is the last post on this subject.
Cpl. Jennings, I don't know you, but I wish you the best Christmas you and your family have ever had. You are a #1 pilot in my book and I hope the people in your area appreciate you.
Cheers, Don McDougall
Whirlygirl
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Why are folks getting their knickers in a such a knot ??
Seems to me Cpl. Jennings used his skills and ability and saved a life that day .. no one else was in his shoes, so how can anyone say he pushed rules or broke regulations? Who are any of us to imply that he used poor judgment? I have no idea who he is but the guy was given credit for doing a good job, just applaud him. Lets face it, being thanked for doing a good job is somewhat rare.. I doubt he is anymore of a cowboy than most pilots. My guess he just saw a job that had to be done so he did it and at the time never thought any thing more of it. I think it's great that someone recognized it as a situation worthy of being awarded,
it's a just a shame that some people want to somehow make that sound like a bad thing.
Way to go Cpl. Jennings, Kudos' to you.. a big hearty pat on the back!!!!
As for what's been said about breaking rules and risking the lives of crew members without their consent, or advising them of the situations with which they may be faced, I agree, that is simply being an omnipotent fool. Sadly no matter what the profession there are plenty of them out there.. (fools that is)
Sadly with job's/careers in which there is a fair amount of risk involved there will always be fools, cowboys, and hero wannabe's. Unfortunately, they are the folks who seem to make up a bulk of the statistics out there.
Seems to me Cpl. Jennings used his skills and ability and saved a life that day .. no one else was in his shoes, so how can anyone say he pushed rules or broke regulations? Who are any of us to imply that he used poor judgment? I have no idea who he is but the guy was given credit for doing a good job, just applaud him. Lets face it, being thanked for doing a good job is somewhat rare.. I doubt he is anymore of a cowboy than most pilots. My guess he just saw a job that had to be done so he did it and at the time never thought any thing more of it. I think it's great that someone recognized it as a situation worthy of being awarded,
it's a just a shame that some people want to somehow make that sound like a bad thing. Way to go Cpl. Jennings, Kudos' to you.. a big hearty pat on the back!!!!
As for what's been said about breaking rules and risking the lives of crew members without their consent, or advising them of the situations with which they may be faced, I agree, that is simply being an omnipotent fool. Sadly no matter what the profession there are plenty of them out there.. (fools that is)
Sadly with job's/careers in which there is a fair amount of risk involved there will always be fools, cowboys, and hero wannabe's. Unfortunately, they are the folks who seem to make up a bulk of the statistics out there.
407 Driver
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The way I see situations such as this is basically....someone took the time and effort to point out Dwaynes actions...so he was properly rewarded.
Did he break CARS? Who knows?
Did he endanger others? Probably not?
Did he go beyond his experience level, Definitely not!
Did he ask for recognition? Definitely not!
Did he deserve this recognition? Absolutely!
In saying that, there are at least 1,000 others out there who have done similar flights, or worse, who also deserve recognition. The facts are that Dwaynes organization took the time to give him that deserved recognition, so don't attack him for it. He's a quiet professional, just doing his job.
Hopefully, next time one of you use your professional judgement and experience to go out and help someone, there's someone involved with the forethought and knowledge to pick up the phone and advise someone of your deeds.
Did he break CARS? Who knows?
Did he endanger others? Probably not?
Did he go beyond his experience level, Definitely not!
Did he ask for recognition? Definitely not!
Did he deserve this recognition? Absolutely!
In saying that, there are at least 1,000 others out there who have done similar flights, or worse, who also deserve recognition. The facts are that Dwaynes organization took the time to give him that deserved recognition, so don't attack him for it. He's a quiet professional, just doing his job.
Hopefully, next time one of you use your professional judgement and experience to go out and help someone, there's someone involved with the forethought and knowledge to pick up the phone and advise someone of your deeds.
LongRanger
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The Real Batman...you just don't get it man...
407 Driver...good post...you too WG!!
In your own words, you weren't there so who do you think you are to pass judegement on that mission. 🙁 Give it up by and congradulate da by'. We'll forgive you for crappin' on him!!
407 Driver...good post...you too WG!!
Very interesting thread. "When to go and when to draw the line on a life"
Remember a accident in the George River some years ago when a gentlemen I had met just a day or two before perished with him and his whole crew on board while trying to save a life.
Was he a cowboy or a hero seeker, I guaruntee you not. He was a man with a heart who had a very dificult descion to make. Sadly things went wrong, and unfortunalety things do go wrong in this business on occasion.
Some talked of proffesionalism.............well that sir is making the call and hoping it is the correct one.
With regard to violations, rule book pretty much goes out the window. Now before some of you start beating me for this comment, I said rule book not common sense. So show me a guy that is 200 nautical out to sea, has 5 guys out of the dingy and will not hoist the six (last) guy because it is going to put him 20kg over gross.
I do not know Dwayne, but here's to ya, and like 407 said there are 1000's others out there, and well done to them.
Merry Christmas
Remember a accident in the George River some years ago when a gentlemen I had met just a day or two before perished with him and his whole crew on board while trying to save a life.
Was he a cowboy or a hero seeker, I guaruntee you not. He was a man with a heart who had a very dificult descion to make. Sadly things went wrong, and unfortunalety things do go wrong in this business on occasion.
Some talked of proffesionalism.............well that sir is making the call and hoping it is the correct one.
With regard to violations, rule book pretty much goes out the window. Now before some of you start beating me for this comment, I said rule book not common sense. So show me a guy that is 200 nautical out to sea, has 5 guys out of the dingy and will not hoist the six (last) guy because it is going to put him 20kg over gross.
I do not know Dwayne, but here's to ya, and like 407 said there are 1000's others out there, and well done to them.
Merry Christmas
sorry batman,
I didn't realise my generalization would cause you to see red. I didn't have a real life experience relating to helicopters I could use, so I used the next best thing I had.
My generalization was meant to reflect on human nature. My human nature dictates that there seems to be alot of guys who noses are a bit out of joint over this.
Get over it. The medal was handed out to a guy who deserved it.
I didn't realise my generalization would cause you to see red. I didn't have a real life experience relating to helicopters I could use, so I used the next best thing I had.
My generalization was meant to reflect on human nature. My human nature dictates that there seems to be alot of guys who noses are a bit out of joint over this.
Get over it. The medal was handed out to a guy who deserved it.
Excuse me folks, I don’t mean to sidetrack this thread, but Mr. (Ms.?) Stickjiggler’s rant contains a few inaccuracies and his/her concluding statement seems to suggest that maybe the folks in Valemount tend to act without thinking.STICKJIGGLER said:
1. There was no “slinging†involved, at least not in the context of the mountain rescue system. It was a fairly straight-forward rappel operation which the pilot was qualified to carry out.
2. As far as the “wild swinging ride†goes, you may wish to confirm the accuracy of your information as quite often the media tends to enhance a story to make for a good read.
3. Maybe 407D can help us out here, but the last time I checked I'm pretty sure it's about 140NM from Golden to Valemount and not even a 407 is that fast! Given the Wx that particular evening, I seriously doubt that the “qualified Mtn Rescue Pilots†would have even made it to Valemount. Even if the Wx had been ideal, they would not have made it in time to mount any kind of rescue effort as it would have been well past grounding time. If memory serves, the SARtechs involved believed that the victims would probably have perished due to exposure if not due to the nature of their injuries had they not been able to get into the site that night.
There’s nearly always more to these stories than any of us are aware of. Stickjiggler, it's really not worth getting that worked up about.
I personally know several mountain rescue pilots (past and present). I would have to say that as a group they are not in the rescue business for the recognition but I would also like to say that they all definitely deserve it.
To Cpl. Jennings and also to the crew of the news chopper….congratulations, and well done!
The Real Batman
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Gee, stay away from the forum for a day, and all hell breaks loose!
Blackmac: Please refer to me to the document that indicates that “TC regs are not written in stone, they are there to protect the public from operators that are making a buck from breaking the minimums.†I assume from your statement that we can pick and choose which regs we will obey in any given situation as long as we are not making a buck. Of course to that I say “Baloneyâ€!
Whirlygirl: Fair enough.
407 Driver: It’s not the fact that Cpl. Jennings received the recognition, and I hope that’s not what is being taken from what I am saying. I knew that my initial comment was going send a flurry of hand grenades in my direction, but the event seemed like a good way to get the conversation going! It concerns me, especially now seeing the comments being thrown out here, that there are some serious misunderstandings about what we do with helicopters. Just because we are pilots, and have a certain set of skills, doesn’t mean we should be using those skills carte blanche. And the CAR’s are an excellent guide to keep us from playing hero. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
LongRanger: A pilot with over 30 years experience. If I had not experienced the real life situations that we’re talking about here – including recognition from the same employer as Cpl Jennings, I would have kept my mouth shut. The part that is worrying me is how some people seem to think that we should be rewarding pilots for doing things that we should not be doing. Now,... do you get it?
RDM: This is the attitude that scares me. If you want to create an example at least think of one that compares. Leaving the tarmac knowing the weather is below VFR minimums, BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO SAVE SOMEONE’S LIFE, is not at all the same as arriving at a scene 200 nm from shore to discover a passenger puts you 20 kgs over gross. Get it?
MagSeal: Understood. It’s not the medal that this is all about – but it sure proved the catalyst to get this conversation going!
Bleed air: I want to agree with the last paragraph of Stickjiggler’s ‘rant’. We do have to guard ourselves from making heat of the moment decisions that could backfire with tragic results.
Human life is precious. I see it come and go every day I go to work. The CAR’s are there for a reason. They take away the decision when the requirements are not met. There are NO weather visibility exceptions, including life saving. Professional pilots recognize that. Cowboys don’t. If you, as God’s gift to aviation, choose to ignore them, then make sure you are risking YOUR life, not someone else’s.
Blackmac: Please refer to me to the document that indicates that “TC regs are not written in stone, they are there to protect the public from operators that are making a buck from breaking the minimums.†I assume from your statement that we can pick and choose which regs we will obey in any given situation as long as we are not making a buck. Of course to that I say “Baloneyâ€!
Whirlygirl: Fair enough.
407 Driver: It’s not the fact that Cpl. Jennings received the recognition, and I hope that’s not what is being taken from what I am saying. I knew that my initial comment was going send a flurry of hand grenades in my direction, but the event seemed like a good way to get the conversation going! It concerns me, especially now seeing the comments being thrown out here, that there are some serious misunderstandings about what we do with helicopters. Just because we are pilots, and have a certain set of skills, doesn’t mean we should be using those skills carte blanche. And the CAR’s are an excellent guide to keep us from playing hero. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
LongRanger: A pilot with over 30 years experience. If I had not experienced the real life situations that we’re talking about here – including recognition from the same employer as Cpl Jennings, I would have kept my mouth shut. The part that is worrying me is how some people seem to think that we should be rewarding pilots for doing things that we should not be doing. Now,... do you get it?
RDM: This is the attitude that scares me. If you want to create an example at least think of one that compares. Leaving the tarmac knowing the weather is below VFR minimums, BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO SAVE SOMEONE’S LIFE, is not at all the same as arriving at a scene 200 nm from shore to discover a passenger puts you 20 kgs over gross. Get it?
MagSeal: Understood. It’s not the medal that this is all about – but it sure proved the catalyst to get this conversation going!
Bleed air: I want to agree with the last paragraph of Stickjiggler’s ‘rant’. We do have to guard ourselves from making heat of the moment decisions that could backfire with tragic results.
Human life is precious. I see it come and go every day I go to work. The CAR’s are there for a reason. They take away the decision when the requirements are not met. There are NO weather visibility exceptions, including life saving. Professional pilots recognize that. Cowboys don’t. If you, as God’s gift to aviation, choose to ignore them, then make sure you are risking YOUR life, not someone else’s.
LongRanger
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RDM...right on brudder, right on!! I'm some glad I had you as an instructor!! 😛
Batman....no I don't get it, whatever it is you are trying to say. I see some flip flopping now :huh: . I commend you for your 30 years experience. I'm sure you have knowledge to pass on. All these replies started with a couple of hands throwing comments about weather limits and regs that may not have even been a factor that day. I hope the comments tossed out were not from rumors. Sorry I don't get it!! :blink: Stunned maybe!!
BTW Batman...would the commendation you refer to be from a flight out of Corner Brook, Newfoundland?? B)
Simply put....show us the METAR and TAF for that day and area and I'll withdraw from this topic. Otherwise let it go before we start throwing rocks!! 😀 😉
I'm some glad I had you as an instructor!! 😛 Batman....no I don't get it, whatever it is you are trying to say. I see some flip flopping now :huh: . I commend you for your 30 years experience. I'm sure you have knowledge to pass on. All these replies started with a couple of hands throwing comments about weather limits and regs that may not have even been a factor that day. I hope the comments tossed out were not from rumors. Sorry I don't get it!! :blink: Stunned maybe!!
BTW Batman...would the commendation you refer to be from a flight out of Corner Brook, Newfoundland?? B)
Simply put....show us the METAR and TAF for that day and area and I'll withdraw from this topic. Otherwise let it go before we start throwing rocks!! 😀 😉
