Mechanic Pension Plan Comparisons

[olderguyAMT]

At American Airlines the Co. makes a big deal about total costs per employee so they can get a better deal in contract negotiations. Some say that AA's labor costs are the highest in the industry, but, there are many pieces in that puzzle. So in reference to the Technicians at CAL and the AMT at AMR, how do they compare? I am having some trouble getting the facts online. Per LOA 28-1 in the current CAL TA, the pension plan has not been frozen yet. Just wondering how they compare.

 

[strfyr51]

At American Airlines the Co. makes a big deal about total costs per employee so they can get a better deal in contract negotiations. Some say that AA's labor costs are the highest in the industry, but, there are many pieces in that puzzle. So in reference to the Technicians at CAL and the AMT at AMR, how do they compare? I am having some trouble getting the facts online. Per LOA 28-1 in the current CAL TA, the pension plan has not been frozen yet. Just wondering how they compare.

***************************************************************************************************
The Mechanics No longer Have a defined Benefit Pension plan. The pensions are covered by the PBGC and we get a 4% 401k match and that's about IT! The IBT has ofered the option to give up the 401K 4% Match toward the IBT pension plan after UPS ledt the IBT penion plan and the IBT has to give back $6.5B. It appears they would like the Mechanics to join to recoup some of that cash. Nobody is into it as of yet though we'll see. Heck I'm not even sure the IBT will even BE around by next year if they don't Deliver on a contract the guys can "Crow" about.

 

[whoop whoop]

At American Airlines the Co. makes a big deal about total costs per employee so they can get a better deal in contract negotiations. Some say that AA's labor costs are the highest in the industry, but, there are many pieces in that puzzle. So in reference to the Technicians at CAL and the AMT at AMR, how do they compare? I am having some trouble getting the facts online. Per LOA 28-1 in the current CAL TA, the pension plan has not been frozen yet. Just wondering how they compare.

Hey, at CAL we still have a defined benefit plan for now. I wouldn't know how to compare to yours, since I don't know how yours works. Here at CAL, it basically is the best five years of your last ten, then you have some corporate accountants math thrown in and you have your retirement. The one thing is we still have a lump sum payout if you would prefer that choice.
Just like our now fellow co-workers at UAL, the ibt has been trying to secure OUR pensions in their pockets. They got shot down here a few years ago, even though they have weaseled some language in the new contract to make it easier for the thieves to steal our pension.

 

[olderguyAMT]

***************************************************************************************************
The Mechanics No longer Have a defined Benefit Pension plan. The pensions are covered by the PBGC and we get a 4% 401k match and that's about IT! The IBT has ofered the option to give up the 401K 4% Match toward the IBT pension plan after UPS ledt the IBT penion plan and the IBT has to give back $6.5B. It appears they would like the Mechanics to join to recoup some of that cash. Nobody is into it as of yet though we'll see. Heck I'm not even sure the IBT will even BE around by next year if they don't Deliver on a contract the guys can "Crow" about.
__________________________________________

That 401k would suck for an older guy.
I didn't know that the IBT had pension plan dealings. How could the IBT squeeze the mechs for more than monthly dues to make up that cash shortfall?
The pilots must still have a defined benefit plan that the Co. was still funding in recent past years. That is what threw me off base on the subject.

The crowing that you mentioned must have come from Local 19 in Houston when they ratified the TA on Nov. 4 with an 88% yes vote.

Since the UAL mechs are negotiating a separate TA with the IBT, whow will that work out?

Seems like it will all have to be equalized at some point in the future, right?

Sounds like the IBT is not too popular these days! Is there an AMFA card drive going on there?

 

[olderguyAMT]

Hey, at CAL we still have a defined benefit plan for now. I wouldn't know how to compare to yours, since I don't know how yours works. Here at CAL, it basically is the best five years of your last ten, then you have some corporate accountants math thrown in and you have your retirement. The one thing is we still have a lump sum payout if you would prefer that choice.
Just like our now fellow co-workers at UAL, the ibt has been trying to secure OUR pensions in their pockets. They got shot down here a few years ago, even though they have weaseled some language in the new contract to make it easier for the thieves to steal our pension.

at American, they take the best 4 years out of the last ten, then get out that calculator and do the bean counter math, then divide by 12 and get the monthly pension payment. I can't remember the exact number right now.

Did the Technician Pension Plan get frozen or is it still being funded?

 

[strfyr51]

***************************************************************************************************
The Mechanics No longer Have a defined Benefit Pension plan. The pensions are covered by the PBGC and we get a 4% 401k match and that's about IT! The IBT has ofered the option to give up the 401K 4% Match toward the IBT pension plan after UPS ledt the IBT penion plan and the IBT has to give back $6.5B. It appears they would like the Mechanics to join to recoup some of that cash. Nobody is into it as of yet though we'll see. Heck I'm not even sure the IBT will even BE around by next year if they don't Deliver on a contract the guys can "Crow" about.
__________________________________________

That 401k would suck for an older guy.
I didn't know that the IBT had pension plan dealings. How could the IBT squeeze the mechs for more than monthly dues to make up that cash shortfall?
The pilots must still have a defined benefit plan that the Co. was still funding in recent past years. That is what threw me off base on the subject.

The crowing that you mentioned must have come from Local 19 in Houston when they ratified the TA on Nov. 4 with an 88% yes vote.

Since the UAL mechs are negotiating a separate TA with the IBT, whow will that work out?

Seems like it will all have to be equalized at some point in the future, right?

Sounds like the IBT is not too popular these days! Is there an AMFA card drive going on there?

**************************************************************************************************** the UAL mechanics have already Booted AMFA and the IAM before them. Many suspect that AMFA was booted to get the old IAM guys back in the fold. I don't really know. But AMFA made some pretty critical mistakes and it appears the IBT is following suit. Going back to the IAM is an option, but NOBODY is going to go back if the IAM won't make the the Mechanics a Separate District that's ONLY accountable TO the Mechanics. That's WHY they left the Last time. . The IBT is even More screwy. I'm in Chicago and was part of Local 981 in El Monte CA. Which is a Truck Driver Local for Trash Haulers! Now WHAT are they or Could they do for ME in Aviation?? It didn't make any Sense! But that's a moot point now as the IBT isn't going to do anything. I don't know if they'll get booted out at UAL But. I DO see an "autonomous" Airline local in the mold of UPS's 2727A as the UAL mechanics are a bunch of PIRATES! Any Union that shows the least BIT of Weakness?? They'll WALK the PLANK!

 

[olderguyAMT]

**************************************************************************************************** the UAL mechanics have already Booted AMFA and the IAM before them. Many suspect that AMFA was booted to get the old IAM guys back in the fold. I don't really know. But AMFA made some pretty critical mistakes and it appears the IBT is following suit. Going back to the IAM is an option, but NOBODY is going to go back if the IAM won't make the the Mechanics a Separate District that's ONLY accountable TO the Mechanics. That's WHY they left the Last time. . The IBT is even More screwy. I'm in Chicago and was part of Local 981 in El Monte CA. Which is a Truck Driver Local for Trash Haulers! Now WHAT are they or Could they do for ME in Aviation?? It didn't make any Sense! But that's a moot point now as the IBT isn't going to do anything. I don't know if they'll get booted out at UAL But. I DO see an "autonomous" Airline local in the mold of UPS's 2727A as the UAL mechanics are a bunch of PIRATES! Any Union that shows the least BIT of Weakness?? They'll WALK the PLANK!

The issue at AMR for us is the same. finding a union that is willing to represent the members that has responsible and accountable upper union management . There is the AMP card drive going on here now. A new union, independent of the AFL-CIO. The outcome of that card drive is uncertain, only time will tell now. We had the TWU ramrodding a concessionary TA down our throats, even with ballot wording that a strike would be the only result of a no vote. Well they have egg on the face now, and the NO votes rejected the crappy TA by a large margin. and there was no strike, just a return to the so-called negotiations in a couple of weeks in Mid December.
We will see what results they can reach. The threat of AMP to boot out the TWU could mean that some accountability returns to the TWU....maybe. No or limited checks and ballances in the top union office.

We had a negotiating team that was not allowed to talk to the co. reps. at the table, and then when one union rep. went behind closed doors without the team, we suddenly had an agreement. Then there was no discussion allowed by our team, only a yes or a no vote on the aggreement. The rest is history with the rejection of the piece of crap. Now back to the table.

Our Mech and Related negotiage separately from the other title groups. I am not sure if it helps us at all, recon that time will tell.
The Co. has used stalling tactics on Pilot, Mech, and FA unions, with the National Mediation Board doing the stalling game too.

The Co. wanted a zero cost to them contract, and says they can't afford any more. Now we had a high incr. in Traffic numbers for Nov. more revs could be a given. Of course the cost of pensions will be used against us. We do most of our Heavy Maint. in-house.
So the Co. naturally says labor costs are higher than other airlines. We have lots of Vice Pres. positions too. Way too many, with top heavy mgmt with our morale in the gutter.

 

[whoop whoop]

at American, they take the best 4 years out of the last ten, then get out that calculator and do the bean counter math, then divide by 12 and get the monthly pension payment. I can't remember the exact number right now.

Did the Technician Pension Plan get frozen or is it still being funded?

Sounds like our plans are pretty similar. And yes, they are still contributing to our plan here at CAL.

As far as UAL, they have just started another AMFA drive. There is a combined UAL-CAL committee that has formed of current CAL and UAL mechanics to get AMFA back at UAL and get AMFA at CAL. There is a website www.cal-ualmechanics.com, that is pretty informative. It looks like the IAM is dead in the water at UAL. The ibt will be replaced by AMFA at the combined carrier, that is for sure. The teamsters won at UAL by lies and deception, and they didn't even win by that much. They were able to trick all the laid off guys. They promised them they would get them their jobs back, so they got the majority of them to vote for the teamsters. The majority of the active guys voted AMFA if you look at the numbers.

And you guys should definitely get AMP in as soon as possible.

 

[eolesen]

We have lots of Vice Pres. positions too. Way too many, with top heavy mgmt

Off topic for the UA/CO forum, but the number of vice presidents and above at AMR is equal to that at WN, and they're a smaller airline.

Happy to continue that discussion over on the AA forum if you really want to argue a side by side comparison using facts and not breakroom mythology.

 

[TWU informer]

If the CO plan still has the LUMP SUM opition, this is huge in value and makes this plan far superior to the AA plan for AMT's.

 

[whoop whoop]

If the CO plan still has the LUMP SUM option, this is huge in value and makes this plan far superior to the AA plan for AMT's.

I agree whole heartedly. The lump sum is BIG! But, after this last decade of witnessing pension plans being destroyed, most here at CAL want a defined contribution now. Match our monthly pay with x% into the 401k. The money will be ours to invest and do with as each individual is comfortable with, and if you get laid off, quit, get fired etc., the money comes with you, it's yours and nobody can take it away, including the teamsters.