2BlacknBlue
Senior
- Oct 4, 2007
- 327
- 47
World, I agree. This thread topic is about missing pets, and then BAMMMM! Here comes the anti-union crowd!
.........pathetic.
MISSING PETS on Delta
- Thread starter SKY HIGH
- Start date
World, I agree. This thread topic is about missing pets, and then BAMMMM! Here comes the anti-union crowd!
.........pathetic.
Kev3188
Veteran
I'm as pro labor as they come, and I gotta tell ya; I would've had to recuse myself from that one. No way I could defend the member's actions.
What the hell?! Why not? We release pets to "in laws," with no problem (provided there is proper ID, it's been cleared with the passenger, etc).
southwind
Veteran
Yeah, wouldn't want to have someone take "personal" responsibility for their mistakes !
How much time off did the driver or loader,who left the pet carrier on the tarmac, receive for their incompetence ?
2BlacknBlue
Senior
- Oct 4, 2007
- 327
- 47
Don't be so quick to JUMP to conclusions Froggy! "How much time off did the driver or loader,who left the pet carrier on the tarmac, receive for their incompetence?" Don't know and I don't care. Who says this story is true anyway? Where's your PROOF that this really happened?
You remind me of management!
It was true but my point really wasn't to bring a union argument into this but that there were a lot of mistakes that allowed that to happen. After that and other issues NWA came out with "priority pet" which really cut down on missing pets it seems that DL had/has the same problems with regards to transport of animals. DL has had some pretty bad ones too like the champion German Shepards puppies being shipped from Germany to Ohio for law enforcement and were put in the wrong bin in an MD-88 IIRC. 5 of the 7 puppies died. DL just needs better training for their ramp and need to adapt a program modeled much like priority pet was.
Kev3188
Veteran
I completely agree. Priority Pet still exists to a degree. Not sure if they still have the vans in MSP/DTW or not?
Training is also a huge issue, and extends not just to ACS, but to cargo, and the call centers as well. At the stations level, it may be complicated by the fact that many cities are seeing "new" A/C for the first time. A PMNW guy like me may not have seen a 737-800, while my counterpart might not have worked an A320. Also, the few PMDL A/C we've had come through here haven't had the "No live animal" stickers. Why not? If these were one-off A/C, so be it; I'd be happily to be corrected. But if they're indicative of the rest of the fleet, then there's an easily implemented fix right there. If nothing else, it'd cover some of the graffiti in the bins.
Training is also a huge issue, and extends not just to ACS, but to cargo, and the call centers as well. At the stations level, it may be complicated by the fact that many cities are seeing "new" A/C for the first time. A PMNW guy like me may not have seen a 737-800, while my counterpart might not have worked an A320. Also, the few PMDL A/C we've had come through here haven't had the "No live animal" stickers. Why not? If these were one-off A/C, so be it; I'd be happily to be corrected. But if they're indicative of the rest of the fleet, then there's an easily implemented fix right there. If nothing else, it'd cover some of the graffiti in the bins.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
No union is required to defend clearly negligent or illegal behavior.
I agree that if DL is sending planes to places where ramp personnel are not familiar with them, there are a host of potential issues that need to be addressed - and loading pets in the wrong bin is just one problem.
I hope some of you that are seeing problems related to DL's fleet decisions are speaking up. As a passenger I am just as interested in seeing a smooth-running airline.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
Once again, there is no law requring any union to defend illegal activity nor should there be.
Based on the original comment about a ramp worker SUPPOSEDLY running over a pet cabin (possibly an accident at that point even if negligence was involved) but which became potentially illegal when the animals were placed back in the kennel and put on the aircraft.
Perhaps you would like to provide some examples of illegal activity which unions have defended.
Thankfully, as was noted, the vast majority of union members are law abiding and find the reported incident detestable and irrresponsible. It was undoubtedly because the family did not file charges that determining whether there was illegal activity did not occur. If charges were filed and the ramp worker was found guilty of a crime for activities performed on the job, neither the company or the IAM could have or would have tried defending him.
Illegal? Was the employee arrested and charged?
A union is required by law to defend and represent each member against the company if any discipline is issued, its cut and dry.
And the last time I checked its the police and district attorney who charges people with illegal activity and the courts determine guilt and innocence, not an airline.
A union is required by law to defend and represent each member against the company if any discipline is issued, its cut and dry.
And the last time I checked its the police and district attorney who charges people with illegal activity and the courts determine guilt and innocence, not an airline.
Kev3188
Veteran
Depending on how things played out, a DFR suit could have been very likely.
I can't say I would've envied his steward.
I can't say I would've envied his steward.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
I'm still waiting for examples how a union was able to SUCCESSFULLY defend illegal activity.
And, yes, I know that it is civil authorities that file charges and prosecute criminals - which is why I said that if charges were filed, neither the union or the company could do anything to defend or help the offending employee.
A district attorney, judge, and jury could all care less what a persons' status is, including whether they belong to a union, if a crime is committed.
again, the point of the thread is to eliminate ACCIDENTAL injury and death to animals by well-meaning employees. Negligent or criminal activity will always occur and should be harshly dealt with.
----
at 38,000 feet over northern OK on DL 2026/MSP-DFW..... excellent crews to/from MSP.... can't say much good about the CONTRACT DL ramp operation in CLT where they managed to block the entire DL ramp area during a LENGTHY deicing procedure of a 738, causing 2-3 hr delays on multiple flights.
Send some winter hardened PMNW employees - EMPLOYEES - to some of these southern cities to help them dig out.
Then again, The City of Atlanta and the Georgia DOT can't even manage to salt and sand the interstates and major roads like Peachtree (yes, the Peachtree Rd.... where people are sledding down the middle of the road).
And, yes, I know that it is civil authorities that file charges and prosecute criminals - which is why I said that if charges were filed, neither the union or the company could do anything to defend or help the offending employee.
A district attorney, judge, and jury could all care less what a persons' status is, including whether they belong to a union, if a crime is committed.
again, the point of the thread is to eliminate ACCIDENTAL injury and death to animals by well-meaning employees. Negligent or criminal activity will always occur and should be harshly dealt with.
----
at 38,000 feet over northern OK on DL 2026/MSP-DFW..... excellent crews to/from MSP.... can't say much good about the CONTRACT DL ramp operation in CLT where they managed to block the entire DL ramp area during a LENGTHY deicing procedure of a 738, causing 2-3 hr delays on multiple flights.
Send some winter hardened PMNW employees - EMPLOYEES - to some of these southern cities to help them dig out.
Then again, The City of Atlanta and the Georgia DOT can't even manage to salt and sand the interstates and major roads like Peachtree (yes, the Peachtree Rd.... where people are sledding down the middle of the road).
I am a dog lover and think that airlines should never transport them other than in the cabin itself. At America West we used to send pets in the cargo bin and the only training we received was put the pet in the front bin and tell the captain. It was pure Corporate greed trying to make more money when they had no real plan. Any pets I ever saw seemed stressed. Thankfully we don't transport anymore.
Kev3188
Veteran
First of all CLT should be insourced. If DL is as serious as they claim about bringing work back in house, then CLT and RDU should be 2 of the first.
As to bringing some expertise to the table, that's been a problem all along across all programs. DL isn't interested in best practices if they come from the NW side. Sure, they adopted our Deice program (manuals, reporting system, etc.), but that's as far as it went. There seems to be a real lack of openness to new experience on the DL side.
BTW, the NYT had a picture of crews in Georgia spreading asphalt over the snow. Really?! :blink:
