Near Hit in ORF

[airport]

From 12/14/05 ORF Virginian-Pilot Newspaper:

Controller's error put Navy jets in commercial airliner's path
By JACK DORSEY, The Virginian-Pilot
© December 13, 2005

NORFOLK — Two Navy Reserve F/A-18C Hornets came dangerously close to a commercial airliner that had taken off from Norfolk International Airport last month because of an “operational errorâ€￾ by a civilian air traffic controller. The near miss, undisclosed until it was confirmed Tuesday, involved a Southwest Boeing 737 en route to Orlando, Fla., and two Texas-based Hornets headed toward Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia Beach.

They came within 100 feet of one another in elevation and a half-mile in horizontal distance, said Jim Peters, a spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration in New York.

Rules call for aircraft to be no closer than 1,000 feet in elevation and three miles distance from one another.

...

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link to story

 

[Flying Titan]

Though this does not appear to be SWA's fault in any way, this is not good news in light of the recent accident at MDW. Saw this on the WSJ website, as well. It's probably going to get more play in the news as a result of the MDW tragedy.

Here's what I found interesting....

"The incident came to light after another air traffic controller anonymously tipped off federal authorities and also notified The Virginian-Pilot."

Yikes. Were the federal "authorities" not notified??? Sounds like there's some CYA from the ATC here. If that's the case, that's serious problem.

 

[corl737]

"The incident came to light after another air traffic controller anonymously tipped off federal authorities and also notified The Virginian-Pilot."[emphasis added]

And to think all this time I thought The Virginian was a cowboy! Now I find out he's a pilot!

 

[mrfish3726]

Goose: "We got a 1000kts closure MAV, they're coming right at us."

Maverick: "Ok buddy, what's on your mind?"

 

[mrfish3726]

Maverick: Holly #### F-18 Hornets, no one at SWA has seen those before!

Navy Commander(USS Enterprise): What the hell are they doing out here? If they break a 150 miles launch the alert 5 (SWA 737's) aircraft.

Airboss: Sorry skipper we only got 4 alert aircraft after the one we parked on 55th AVE!

Maverick: If I can't shoot the SB, lets see if we can have some fun with him. Maverick rolls his 737 inverted as the stews disco shorts envelope their heads LOL. SWA 737 goes inverted as Maverick and Goose give the Navy Reserve the Bird YIPPIE! Goose takes a paloroid yeahhhhhhhhhh haaaaaaaaaaaaaah! "This is a great shot MAV, I should be a photograper!"

Maverick: Cougar were getting a little low on fuel so were heading home! We'll see at the Phillips 66 in Burbank OK!

MERLIN: "MAV that F-18 really screwed him up I don't think we can make 31 CTR at MDW?"

 

[CaptianBoomer]

Could we confine the jokes to something that is funny?

Boomer

 

[tug_slug]

Could we confine the jokes to something that is funny?

Boomer

You mean like Southwest eating up Frontier in Denver?

 

[Ch. 12]

You mean like Southwest eating up Frontier in Denver?

...and said with so fewer words!! (and only one post instead of two).

 

[E-TRONS]

I think we need to give our military flyboys some credit here. We are talking F-18's. I think the military jocks were well aware of the LUV bird position with their onboard radar.

Any aviator will tell you even though ATC tells them what is going on with traffic, they still do a good bit of looking around the sky and on TCAS. And if they don't already do so, they should.

A DHL midair over Europe comes to mind here. Atc told them what to do and it crashed two freighters together in the wide open sky.

 

[mrfish3726]

Tug Slug,

We got some 13K and a 16K runway for SWA here in Denver? They should be able to stay on those! 16 flights a day we aren't to worried there dude? We got plenty of illegals here for them to fly around the country!

 

[Ch. 12]

Tug Slug,

We got some 13K and a 16K runway for SWA here in Denver? They should be able to stay on those! 16 flights a day we aren't to worried there dude? We got plenty of illegals here for them to fly around the country!

Ignoring reality is a wonderful way to get surprised down the road.

 

[mrfish3726]

Ch12,

You & AA should be worring about SWA more than F9. Irrelevant to us here in Denver, we welcome the competition. We have been competeing against many competitors for 12 years and we are still alive and kicking here Ch12. SWA IS JUST ANY OTHER AIRLINE, THEY AREN'T ANYTHING SPECIAL. But glad you got your crystal ball all polished and working right. Whats your preminition for AA VS SWA??? I am sure you find it all fine and rosey. I won't be here 12 years from now I'll be more than happily retired! But Frontier will still be Denvers Hometown AirLine today, tomorrow, and 12 years from now. Good luck to AA and your Love Field endeavors, SWA will welcome the competition I am sure!

 

[mga707]

A DHL midair over Europe comes to mind here. Atc told them what to do and it crashed two freighters together in the wide open sky.

Wasn't it a mid-air between a DHL freighter and a Russian (Ukranian?) passenger plane? A Tu-154 perhaps?

 

[E-TRONS]

Wasn't it a mid-air between a DHL freighter and a Russian (Ukranian?) passenger plane? A Tu-154 perhaps?

That would be the one. If I remember correctly, the TU 154 crew did not follow the RA's as directed by TCAS and they maneuvered otherwise. If they did follow, perhaps they would still be around. ATC confused the situation even farther.
TCAS only works when everyone is on the same page. That is, letting the TCAS Processor do all the thinking and following it's advisories when they are announced.

 

[eolesen]

What happened is that TCAS gave proper instructions to both aircraft, and ATC gave the TU-154 crew a conflicting instruction. Unfortunately, the TU-154 crew chose to follow the controller's instructions and ignore the TCAS instruction.