Next week will be important...but the airline should survive

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chipmunn

Guest
I understand all of the labor unions will agree to discuss productivity, benefit, and pension changes and will meet the company's December 2 deadline for a unanimous decision to begin discussions.
However, in my opinion, if any union does not agree to open up negotiations, the US Airways Board could decide as early as December 3 to provide a 60-day notice to terminate that particular unions pension, per PBGC guidelines and the law.
In regard to ALPA, the union code-a-phone reported the MEC authorized the Negotiating Committee to engage in negotiations with the Company regarding modifications to the Pilots’ Pension Plan, in order to improve the chances of the PBGC approving the Company’s pension relief proposal, and the Negotiating Committee has re-entered into small jet negotiations with the Company.
Moreover, the ALPA MEC will reconvene in Arlington at the Key Bridge Marriott on Monday, December 2 at 11 a.m. to discuss the Company’s request for additional concessions. In my opinion, ALPA will reach an acceptable accord with the company and the other unions will discuss their options with the company.
Nonetheless, for example if all of the unions do not agree to discuss and reach concessions, the company can legally terminate individual or all pension plans and save over $500 million per year ($3.1 billion from 2003 to 2009), which would permit the final Plan of Reorganization to be submitted, access to the final DIP credit facility, loan guarantee, and equity investment, to permit a fast track bankruptcy emergence.
Again, the only question for employees is: Do you want your pension terminated or do you want to negotiate productivity, benefit, and pension changes?
The company is seeking $200 million per year in total labor concessions to obtain over $1.5 billion in total annual cuts, but has the legal option, without union agreement, to cancel the pension programs and realize a $500 million per year savings, which could provide the corporation with over $1.8 billion in annual savings.
Either way, it appears the airline will survive and the only question is how will the unions participate.
Chip
 

wings396

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Aug 20, 2002
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And when times do get better the ALPA gang has a chance to get back in the seat of a mainline a/c. For the rest of us that will lose our work to outsourcing it is a different story as these jobs will NEVER return even if the company is making record profits.Any stations that have closed will never have mainline jobs return again. The living proof of this is the 4 flights a day rule the company wants to impose. Get rid of the workers now and put the flights back later without them...what a deal.
 

mrplanes

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Sep 17, 2002
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Agreeing to negotiate is NOT agreeing to the wish list that Siegal has given each work group. Bottom line is that there is no harm in talking. Remember he did not get what he asked for the first time around and he was satisfied. He will NOT get what he asks for this time either. He may or may not get some of it. That is entirely up to us. But sooner or later he will get what he needs to get the loan approval. Because if we say no, the judge will say yes. And if and when that happens, the only recourse is to strike. And there are way too many silent majority people out there who will not walk away from this job because the alternative jobs are worse. No matter how bad the posters here say it will be. If there were better jobs out there they would have them by now.

Dave will get what he needs. We will work harder for less money and some will be layed off. That is a shame, but that is reality.
 

wings396

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Aug 20, 2002
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The pension will be worthless to many of us that will lose our jobs due to the productivity changes. Many jobs will be lost with the companys request to outsource our work. I know that this is of no concern to the pilot group, but is
our main issue. For many of us retirement is a long way off and our income needed to survive is our #1 priority at this time. Not to offend you Chip, or the rest of the pilot group, but your pensions will bring you 3 times what our annual income is while we are still working. I for one want the cash now to survive and will try to put retirement cash away when I can.
 

AOG-N-IT

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Aug 19, 2002
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Chip, I can see why ALPA is the first to jump on the negotiation bandwagon...The reasons are the same as they were with the first round of negotiations. You folks have the most to lose in terms of salary and the pension plan.

ALPA is obviously going to continue to lose people like everyone else , per Daves letter and the friday conference call. The AFA will suffer as well in terms of sinking to minimum staffing levels per the FAA guidlines.

Here's where the separation between the The Flight departments (Pilots and F/A's) differ from the IAM, IAM (Fleet Srvice) and the CWA.

The IAM is having langauge thrown at them that will in some cases completely abolish work group classifications. Utility and IAM Fleet positions being on the top of the charts by favoring "Outsourcing"

Mechanics are looking at massive loses with verbage attacking R&D , De-Icing..and even daily line checks going to sub-standard outsourcing firms. This aspect alone , should scare the hell out of you..your crew and the flying public in general.

Should drastic measures of this type take place? Take a fresh pen with you!! You can play connect the dot with the red MEL stickers once you engage your buddy Otto the Auto-pilot , unless that happens to be placarded as INOP?

The CWA will be facing the same fate of sorts. Technology will sideline more and more with time..and then looms the possibility of thier jobs going to India (like Delta)..or to other off-shore areas. Thus creating more and more Americans being party to the benefits of thier respective states for the next 26 weeks.

The Flight Department will be the very first to bounce back in a possible turn-around of fortunes?..Should J4J's or the MDA thing be more than a myth? Others groups will not see the same rapid recovery by half in terms of replacing jobs re-gained versus jobs lost up-front, regardless of whatever spin you choose to lay out to the contrary.

In summation..Don't get too preachy with the IAM and the CWA again...The field is clearly slanted in your favor par usual...So don't be suprised if the NON-Flight Unions say NO..or worse to Dave and his lofty plans.

Keep in mind ,the AFA is on record with resistance until "Managment" is prepared to assume thier part of the monitary burden too. God I love these people!! That took a pair!!

Please spare us the threats this time too. We all can read..or listen to Dave's friday fireside chats. His goals are consistant with halving the current membership of IAM and CWA...and anything else that doesn't fly for a living. He would sideline you..and the F/A's too..If it weren't for the lack of technology to do so.. and legal grounds set forth by the FAA.

I will ask you respectfully to approach this current situation with a great deal more care than you did during Septemeber Votes...People have had thier eyes safety-wired open for awhile...and they don't care for what they are seeing or hearing in more circles than ever before.

This is a powder keg of times...and you need to be very very mindful of your stance in comparison to the rest of our positions and circumstances. This is not an all things equal proposition in terms other than all of us taking a bite in collective numbers of people to be idled initially...or for good.
 

totobird

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Nov 26, 2002
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Chip I'm not sure how many years you have with USAirways but I have 22 in the fleet group. If you remember the pension plan for the fleet group was frozen back in 1991. I am sure that the threat of terminating the pension plan means nothing to us in the fleet group.
With Dave's new plan catering, mail and freight would be outsourced. Why would anybody in fleet vote YES on this new package if they are going to be laid off ?
Not one person I have talked with over the last few days would even consider accepting such a proposal.
Count this former YES vote as a firm NO !!!!!!!
 

oldtimer

Member
Aug 22, 2002
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Chip,
Unfortunately, along with fleet service, customer service lost their pension in 1991, and now Dave wants the ability to outsource reservations as well as use Express agents in many scenarios at the ATO's. In addition, Dave had agreed that the "dot.com" work for USAirways would come within the USAirways reservations department. Well, now he has decided to close the MCO reservations office, and now I find myself having to relocate, leave my family with 33yrs or take the furlough. I will take the furlough,as I see no "dot.com" work anywhere in our future, but instead, I see our vendor for "dot.com" answering phone calls for reservations, since there is no way in @#*@ that two offices can handle the workload.
Perhaps his plan is to even the playing field, eliminate all pensions for the remaining groups, save the money you mention. Then what? I fear this is just the whimper before the last gasp, and even though I am losing my job, I want the company to survive.
 

wings396

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Aug 20, 2002
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Agreeing to negotiate is NOT agreeing to the wish list that Siegal has given each work group. Bottom line is that there is no harm in talking. Remember he did not get what he asked for the first time around and he was satisfied. He will NOT get what he asks for this time either. He may or may not get some of it. That is entirely up to us. But sooner or later he will get what he needs to get the loan approval. Because if we say no, the judge will say yes. And if and when that happens, the only recourse is to strike. And there are way too many silent majority people out there who will not walk away from this job because the alternative jobs are worse. No matter how bad the posters here say it will be. If there were better jobs out there they would have them by now.

Dave will get what he needs. We will work harder for less money and some will be layed off. That is a shame, but that is reality.



With the track record that the IAM has with fleet service, you can bet the company will get all they asked for. Until they ask to outsource the ramp in the hubs..maybe that will be a different story. Many of their members in the smaller staions are the high seniority people on the system..they preach about how seniority is a big item of theirs, and we are the first to get screwed..go figure. At least some of those poor guys with 5 years can still have a job in a hub....Thanks.
 

sdavis29

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Nov 13, 2002
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totobird,
be glad you got 22years...19 years..(1985) was frozen at a wopping sum of approx 245.00 monthly..secondly many of us esp in the florida markets had mail frt and catering outsourced many years ago...around 1994..and then we lost the express flts so it is really nothing new...you just have not been exposed to it. best of luck...
 

ForkTime2002

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Nov 27, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]
[P][BR]Nonetheless, for example if all of the unions do not agree to discuss and reach concessions, the company can legally terminate individual or all pension plans and save over $500 million per year ($3.1 billion from 2003 to 2009), which would permit the final Plan of Reorganization to be submitted, access to the final DIP credit facility, loan guarantee, and equity investment, to permit a "fast track" bankruptcy emergence.[BR][BR]----------------[BR][BR][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]Why even ask?if the savings are this weeks salvation they can just take 'em right? after all the judge approves every request the compnay makes,why ask when they know the unions aren't going to be receptive.especially in light of the TPA fumble.that was a cluster fox and did more damage to morale than anything else.[BR][BR]It is always the same song man.[BR][BR]"We need this". They get it. Then they come back and say [BR]"We need that too and if you dont give it,we'll take it in court."[BR]You want my bottomline killing 217.00 a month? Fox- Uniform Mr.Labor Friendly.[BR][BR][BR]Are ya reading the posts here? People with 19, 22 and 33 years getting or about to get laid off.and just in time for christmas.[BR][BR]how much time do you have? will you still be this upbeat when you get your package? if 33 years doesnt kep you off the streets nothing will.[BR][BR]no more man.go to court,void our contracts,take the pensions.see how bright eyed and bushy tailed well be then[BR][BR]there'll be no fast track emergence man.[BR]Put a fork in this puppy, shes done.[BR][/FONT][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
 

AOG-N-IT

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Aug 19, 2002
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1
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/1/2002 7:53:37 AM PineyBob wrote:

Questions for AOG &/or Chip:

Has senior management gone through Crystal City yet and completed two rounds of staff cuts? I heard yes and no? All I can say if the future of US is to brighten then the axe had best be 2 headed, Salaried & union!


AOG Replies, Cuts in CCY have been nominal in regards to people that actually influence anything. HR was hit very hard..and that's only because the ranks are dwindling..and hiring is out of the question in most respects. The worst aspect was Dave's refusal to take salary actions toward his hapless so-called talent pool. Remember those that got a piece of $6 Millions in bonuses? out of some mis-guided fear about retention.

Will the company put profit sharing on the table in exchnage for cuts/work rule changes?

AOG Replies. Dave has made comments that involve such a scenario for those that do participate or grant his wishes. The sad part is, The verbage does not come with the same energy that the negative talk does..nor is it remotely defined for folks to ponder for wieghing the pluses and minuses to base a choice upon. The final straw comes from how many people will be left after he gets his way , to be able to actually participate in such a program. A Yes Vote seals many fates for those that would be replaced through outsourcing langauge. Where's thier motivation to play along with this???

Has anyone from the Union side ever actually been allowed to look at the books?

AOG Replies, Yes they were..or at least in the beginning anyway. A truck load of good that did in hindsight..Most feel , especially among the IAM'ers and CWA'ers that thier respective unions are too deeply in the bed with the company to get a clear or honest perspective from them.


Will the company allow the various groups to form "Employee Involement" Teams in order to REALLY INCREASE Productivity? The folks who do the work know where the waste is AND generally speaking also know how to fix it.

AOG Replies, We had this before and it worked..up to the point that middle managment sabotaged some things out of fear for thier own jobs. We had what were coined as "Employee Directed Work Groups" "Ideas that Fly" and lastly an employee suggestion program. The later was killed immediately after Sept. 11 2001. We also had a ralley going here thanks to Chip accepting my challenge to him to be proactive instead of telling the little guy to give in too liberal of a fashion.

Dave goes into small detail in his latest letter of doom about how many employee's have responded by E-mail about productivity and waste issues , this he blows off completely by saying that it was one group pointing out anothers flaws or shortcomings. Maybe?, but in my case it was directly regarding my area of knowledge..and from what I see as defining factors in profit killing. So I found his remarks less than square business ..and more a cruise down the river in Egypt (Denial)


Final Comment: Profits equal Job Security! Trade Unionism works best when profits are plentiful! As you can see, when profits are down or as in this case non-existant, who do they look to first?

AOG Replies...I cannot agree more good Sir!!
 

usfliboi

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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Im a memember of the flight crew and i say fight! What do we have to lose? Please dont threaten the usual lol..... I would not be surprised if we finished this round and all pensions were revamped and they come back for even more! I have 15 yrs with this company and im at the end of my rope with the take take take! Dave lead the way in ccy with the pensions and cuts. Let us know what addional cuts you will be sacrificing!If youll lead the way and show us your willing to share the pain ill gladly go along with it! If not lets rumble!!!!!!! Chip if you want to give BABE then volunteer! Its a free country bud and your more than welcome to have them cut your pension today if possible> I dont blame you if your would, i can see your nervous but hey join the crowd!
 

USAirBoyA330

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Aug 23, 2002
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The deadline for the "NEW" Voluntary Furlough is December 9th. Not that many people know a lot about the new "VF3" and not 6 weeks ago we had 900 F/A apply to leave Dec 2nd. I have the feeling there will be very few takers on this new leave and 810 JR F/A's are out on the curb. Once that happens and the company get "productivity improvements," expect to see about another 1000-2000 F/A hit the street.
 

Dea Certe

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
889
0
My understanding is that AFA will not agree to any more cuts until management shows us the latest crisis is real by taking some cuts as well. Management has said they will not be taking cuts.

Rumor has it we are going to FAA minium staffing anyway. I'm sure we'll get enough voluntary furloughs so more junior people won't get kicked to the curb.

As for as "productivity", our contract is plenty flexible. Management can make us as productive as it chooses. I see no reason to change it. We have some provisions that are supposed to help cut down on abuses, like making us hang around in airports for hours twiddling our thumbs for free. I'd much rather keep on flying than sit for three + hours in a crew base.

We have all worked very hard in the last months to make this operation the best it can be. Notice our stats. We are at the top of the charts! This is because we have hard working employees who are willing to make the best of a bad situation. But we can only take so much. We have families to feed. Some of us are also caring for our elderly parents. We all have our "issues".

So in the event this airline survives, will it be because I gave up my pension? Doubtful, I say.

And just what has management been doing about the revenue side? Advertizing? Rationalizing fares? Making it worthwhile for our FF's to continue their generous support? So far, all I've seen is a nasty letter written to our most valued customers. The guy who wrote that little missive should be smacked upside his head. It wasn't so much the message, it was the tone.

I am very wary of Dave. And I'm sorry I have been made to feel this way. I knew we were in for some pain, I just didn't think it would be handed out so brutishly.
 

ExUAW

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Nov 27, 2002
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"........... However, in my opinion, if any union does not agree to open up negotiations, the US Airways Board could decide as early as December 3 to provide a 60-day notice to terminate that particular unions pension, per PBGC guidelines and the law. "


Why do I feel blackmailed?