Northwest/klm Deal In Doubt

magsau said:
Wow! Another doom and gloom post from magsau. Just when things were starting to settle down, In comes the pot stirrer to liven things up. Thanks for keeping us informed as none of us here know how to click on the news section to get the latest releases. I don't know what we'd do without you magsau. :lol:

By the way, How are things at UA going? Gonna be out of BK soon?
 
Red Tail Bear said:
Wow! Another doom and gloom post from magsau. Just when things were starting to settle down, In comes the pot stirrer to liven things up. Thanks for keeping us informed as none of us here know how to click on the news section to get the latest releases. I don't know what we'd do without you magsau. :lol:

By the way, How are things at UA going? Gonna be out of BK soon?
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RTB,

Again I suppose I had you pegged all wrong, HA!. What was inflamatory about the linking of the article? Suppose some folks would like to discuss the information? Is that not what the forum is about. I did not print the news I just linked it. What is up with your anger?
 
I don't see it as doom and gloom either. It was the lead article on a couple of financial websites this morning, and I don't think that magsau writes for the NY Times or CBS Marketwatch.
 
magsau said:
RTB,

Again I suppose I had you pegged all wrong, HA!. What was inflamatory about the linking of the article? Suppose some folks would like to discuss the information? Is that not what the forum is about. I did not print the news I just linked it. What is up with your anger?
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I guess I just don't understand why an employee of one airline (UA)has taken such an interest in the affairs of another (NW).Considering the competitive relationship of the two, it leads one to question their motive.

Also the fact that it was you who posted the link seems a bit coincidental to me, considering some of your previous posts. What is up with your sudden interest in NW? <_<
 
Red Tail Bear
Agreed!!! Seems several are anxious to put the DOA sticker on one of the financially strongest legacy carriers. Not that things are rosy right now at NWA but we have to file Chap11 and have yet to do something absolutely ridiclous as to come up with a pricing scheme called Simplifares. BTW WT, Simpifares just went up by a 100 bucks. Seems the cap has a bit of fluctation involved as I predicted. I guess you it's it "fare" game to call them Simpli Stupid Fares after all.

cheers

bigsky

No mergers with DL and things will be fine
 
Ya know, I was about to post a link to the story too, but magsau had beat me to it. It is an interesting story and the outcome will have a ripple effect on all three major alliances. Plus it is new territory for the DOT (AFAIK anyway), being asked to grant immunity between one airline (AF/KL) and two different ones (NW & DL). Who knows what the outcome will be? They could grant immunity all the way around, or they could end NW's immunity. Perhaps that could convince NW to looks into oneworld, which would make NHBB immensely happy...
 
whlinder said:
Perhaps that could convince NW to looks into oneworld, which would make NHBB immensely happy...
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Yeah, except AA has been denied anti-trust immunity more than once for its alliance with BA. Even after the immunity was granted to DL/AF, the gummint said that AA/BA was different. They did not elaborate on why one combination of 2 big airlines was ok, but not a combination of two other big airlines.
 
You know the answer to that and the answer is LHR.

My thinking with that idea is that if AA & BA are still denied anti-trust immunity, perhaps BA looks for a new North American partner. NW would be available and helps out AA with their Asian presence. Just throwing it out there; if we didn't speculate we wouldn't have much to talk about.
 
I find it interesting that nearly every article I read about this refers to Delta as Northwest’s “rival,†completely ignoring that both carriers are members of SkyTeam. More evidence to prove my theory that the media believes the negative angle always makes a better story, I guess.

More to the point, though, I think I read somewhere that this “report†was authored by KLM. If so, I think it might simply be an attempt to pressure regulators into approving antitrust immunity (“if you don’t say ‘yes,’ another of your legacy carriers will edge closer to the abyss.â€). Regardless of who their owner (master) is, no airline in their right mind is going to destroy an alliance worth $1B in annual revenues (that’s what the articles say it’s worth to Northwest, but I’m sure the benefits to KLM are somewhere close).
 
whlinder said:
You know the answer to that and the answer is LHR.
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Actually it is only tangentially related to LHR. AA and BA are not even allowed to codeshare on flights between anywhere in the U.S. and LHR. We can codeshare on BA flights from LHR to the rest of the world, but the passenger has to fly on an AA plane from U.S. to LHR.

Passengers emplaning at ATL can be ticketed on DL but actually fly on AF, and vice versa. CDG is not exactly a small regional airport either.

I may be wrong on this, but I think that UAL and LH can codeshare from ORD to FRA--not exactly a two-bit operation either.
 
I thought AA/BA were going to be allowed to have full immunity like DL/AF, NW/KL & UA/LH (where they codeshare both ways and can coordinate schedules and pricing) as long as the airlines relinquished X number of slots at LHR.

JetClipper said:
Regardless of who their owner (master) is, no airline in their right mind is going to destroy an alliance worth $1B in annual revenues (that’s what the articles say it’s worth to Northwest, but I’m sure the benefits to KLM are somewhere close).
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It might not destroy the revenues to AF/KL, it might just transfer them from NW to DL. Figuring out the accounting on things like this is incredibly hard.
 
jimntx said:
Actually it is only tangentially related to LHR. AA and BA are not even allowed to codeshare on flights between anywhere in the U.S. and LHR. We can codeshare on BA flights from LHR to the rest of the world, but the passenger has to fly on an AA plane from U.S. to LHR.

Passengers emplaning at ATL can be ticketed on DL but actually fly on AF, and vice versa. CDG is not exactly a small regional airport either.

I may be wrong on this, but I think that UAL and LH can codeshare from ORD to FRA--not exactly a two-bit operation either.
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But neither of those other examples, CDG and FRA, are airline restricted like LHR is. So it does have a lot to do with LHR.

To allow AMR and BA to codeshare to/from LHR from/to the USA is in effect giving 50% (give or take the actual number of seats/flights) of the market to just one airline.

So while CDG and FRA, with their respective codeshares, may have the same, or even greater percentage of monoply.....its not restricted from competition. Any airline can fly from any point in the US to those cities.

DC
 
As far as I recall, AA and BA haven't re-filed for antitrust immunity since AF/DL was awarded their immunity. Plus, it doesn't really matter what the carriers offer to give up in exchange for immunity -- it all hinges on a new UK/US bilateral, and those talks have gone nowhere for the past five years.

However, if KL/NW -is- approved in conjunction with AF/DL, then there's yet another precedent which may help BA/AA finally get their immunity request.