Northwest

[Beer Guzzler]

Allow me to play Devils Advocate here:

What is the point of AMFA going on strike? It will just expedite the Bankruptcy process.
*NW will get the concessions it needs under the unbrella of Chapter 11 (Thanks to United Airlines). NW has replacement workers in place.

As mentioned in previous posts, what if the pilots & flight attendants engage in sympathy/chaos strikes, is it really going to matter?

If you cut to the bone on this, what is the real issue? The aviation industry SUCKS right now for everybody. Everybody has lost pay, benefits and pensions are coming (Thanks to United Airlines). Gas prices are driving the final nails into the coffin. Load factors are through the roof and still the aviation industry is loosing its ASS.

Again, I am just curious what the feeling is amog NW Employees.. From the outside looking in, the question comes up & nobody wants to answer it.. What is the point of AMFA going on strike?


*FYI, I work for Delta & like NW bankruptcy looms. Paycuts (another round) loom. Benefit increases loom. Pensions are going to be axed (thanks to United Airlines). There has to be a light at the end of the tunnel, it is just faint and miles & miles away.. I wish the best to EVERYBODY in the AVIAITON INDUSTRY. Tensions are high, most people are working shorthanded & morale SUCKS.

 

[luv2fly]

It is my understanding that the NW proposal calls for a large majority of positions to be eliminated. Too many for such an agreement to be ratified. Who is going to vote for their own demise when it may be possible to drag the situation out? It other words, what do they have to lose? "They" being the ones who would surely be laid off.

 

[Bob Owens]

It is my understanding that the NW proposal calls for a large majority of positions to be eliminated. Too many for such an agreement to be ratified. Who is going to vote for their own demise when it may be possible to drag the situation out? It other words, what do they have to lose? "They" being the ones who would surely be laid off.

[post="287812"][/post]​

Thats why the TWU lied to AA mechanics in MCI that came over from TWA. They told them to vote YES to save their jobs when in fact the Yes vote enabled the company to eliminate their jobs.

I'm sure if the hundreds of mechanics who got laid off out of MCI knew what was in the future they would have voted no and the industry leading concessions package that the TWU brought back would have been rejected.

 

[nwamalefa]

Allow me to play Devils Advocate here:

What is the point of AMFA going on strike? It will just expedite the Bankruptcy process.
*NW will get the concessions it needs under the unbrella of Chapter 11 (Thanks to United Airlines). NW has replacement workers in place.

As mentioned in previous posts, what if the pilots & flight attendants engage in sympathy/chaos strikes, is it really going to matter?

If you cut to the bone on this, what is the real issue? The aviation industry SUCKS right now for everybody. Everybody has lost pay, benefits and pensions are coming (Thanks to United Airlines). Gas prices are driving the final nails into the coffin. Load factors are through the roof and still the aviation industry is loosing its ASS.

Again, I am just curious what the feeling is amog NW Employees.. From the outside looking in, the question comes up & nobody wants to answer it.. What is the point of AMFA going on strike?
*FYI, I work for Delta & like NW bankruptcy looms. Paycuts (another round) loom. Benefit increases loom. Pensions are going to be axed (thanks to United Airlines). There has to be a light at the end of the tunnel, it is just faint and miles & miles away.. I wish the best to EVERYBODY in the AVIAITON INDUSTRY. Tensions are high, most people are working shorthanded & morale SUCKS.

[post="287800"][/post]​

Just over half of the voting members will be out of a job. How could AMFA go to their members asking them to vote on a contract when over half of the them will be voting themselves out of a job? If the Flight Attendants do go on strike to support AMFA and the majority of FA's honor the stike, Northwest can not be in business. They only hired 1200 or so replacement flight attendants. If they still fly, their schedule would be next to nothing until more interviews, backround checks, and training plus training flights are completed. That could be a several month process. A stike vote is being conducted right now with the flight attendants.

 

[TWU informer]

I'm sure if the hundreds of mechanics who got laid off out of MCI knew what was in the future they would have voted no and the industry leading concessions package that the TWU brought back would have been rejected.

[post="287846"][/post]​

Had the TWA Mechanics listened to the truth when we told them, there would have either been an AMFA vs TWU election at American by the NMB, or we would have been 27 cards short of E-list of nearly 20,000.

The AA/TWU/NMB party already was required to inflate the list 18,600, had the TWA Mechanics either listened or accepted the truth, the party number would have to have been near 20,000 to save the most docile union in the airline industry.

 

[Bob Owens]

Just over half of the voting members will be out of a job. How could AMFA go to their members asking them to vote on a contract when over half of the them will be voting themselves out of a job? If the Flight Attendants do go on strike to support AMFA and the majority of FA's honor the stike, Northwest can not be in business. They only hired 1200 or so replacement flight attendants. If they still fly, their schedule would be next to nothing until more interviews, backround checks, and training plus training flights are completed. That could be a several month process. A stike vote is being conducted right now with the flight attendants.

[post="287870"][/post]​

NWA is offering better pay and benifits ($32/hr plus tools, transportation and room and board) to the scabs than they are paying current workers. So whats the point? If they are having a hard time getting enough replacements while offering better terms how likely are they going to be able to permanently replace them and put in place terms that are even less attractive? Thats why a lot of the scabs wont even bother to show up. Because all they have to look forward to is having their pay cut, then having to get their own tools, housing and transportation, if they even still have a job.

Like I said I dont know of any mechanics who have not found employment, most have left the industry for good, having found other more reliable jobs that also offer normal hours.

Lets also not forget that the judge only imposed temporary concessions at UAL and USAIR, the unions did not challenge it and the concessions that are in place were voted in place by the workers.

Will NWA go BK? Who knows, maybe if they did we can all follow. It seems strange that NWA, which was doing pretty well until recently all of a sudden is broke, has traffic all of a sudden fallen off or have ticket prices at NWA dropped that much? NWA has a lot of International traffic where they have greater pricing power to lessen the impact of fuel price increases. Not too many LCCs competing with NWA on International routes either.

 

[nwamalefa]

NWA is offering better pay and benifits ($32/hr plus tools, transportation and room and board) to the scabs than they are paying current workers. So whats the point? If they are having a hard time getting enough replacements while offering better terms how likely are they going to be able to permanently replace them and put in place terms that are even less attractive? Thats why a lot of the scabs wont even bother to show up. Because all they have to look forward to is having their pay cut, then having to get their own tools, housing and transportation, if they even still have a job.

Like I said I dont know of any mechanics who have not found employment, most have left the industry for good, having found other more reliable jobs that also offer normal hours.

Lets also not forget that the judge only imposed temporary concessions at UAL and USAIR, the unions did not challenge it and the concessions that are in place were voted in place by the workers.

Will NWA go BK? Who knows, maybe if they did we can all follow. It seems strange that NWA, which was doing pretty well until recently all of a sudden is broke, has traffic all of a sudden fallen off or have ticket prices at NWA dropped that much? NWA has a lot of International traffic where they have greater pricing power to lessen the impact of fuel price increases. Not too many LCCs competing with NWA on International routes either.

[post="287881"][/post]​

Ever since 9/11 and the downturn of the economy our company kept telling us that we are one the best financially. We are losing the least amount of money compared to the other majors. For years. Then January 2005 happened. We went from losing the least amounth of money to we have to declare BK, we are going broke. They say they want pay concessions but only a couple of weeks ago actually approached our union and asked for paycuts. The company cant say they need labor cost reduction, ask us, the FA group, a couple of weeks ago, then declare a BK and then blame it on labor. YOu cant do that. The company should have come to use a couple of years ago trying to work out a deal.

 

[Bob Owens]

Ever since 9/11 and the downturn of the economy our company kept telling us that we are one the best financially. We are losing the least amount of money compared to the other majors. For years. Then January 2005 happened. We went from losing the least amounth of money to we have to declare BK, we are going broke. They say they want pay concessions but only a couple of weeks ago actually approached our union and asked for paycuts. The company cant say they need labor cost reduction, ask us, the FA group, a couple of weeks ago, then declare a BK and then blame it on labor. YOu cant do that. The company should have come to use a couple of years ago trying to work out a deal.

[post="288233"][/post]​

Your company is following the "shock and awe" strategy that AA used. AA was claiming the same thing, that they were financially strong, then all of a sudden, within months they claimed they needed massive concessions or they would go BK. Our unions fell for it an never even bothered to challenge the company. The TWU hired Eclat, the same company that AA used to put together its proposal to the unions as to why they needed concessions, to basically do the same thing for the union.

AA was claiming that they needed $1billion in cash or else they were "technically" broke, funny but I can remember Crandall (a former CEO of AA) bragging that he had "$500 million in cash" and could ride out a strike.

 

[MCI transplant]

Thats why the TWU lied to AA mechanics in MCI that came over from TWA. They told them to vote YES to save their jobs when in fact the Yes vote enabled the company to eliminate their jobs.

I'm sure if the hundreds of mechanics who got laid off out of MCI knew what was in the future they would have voted no and the industry leading concessions package that the TWU brought back would have been rejected.

[post="287846"][/post]​

Amen Brother!!!!!!!

 

[Fly]

The aviation industry SUCKS right now for everybody. Everybody has lost pay, benefits and pensions are coming (Thanks to United Airlines).

[post="287800"][/post]​

Don't you mean US Airways? I do believe they were the first to lose the pensions and pay. No wait, I believe it was AA who took the first concensions (outside of BK! )

 

[700UW]

Does the word ESOP mean anything to UAL employees, and yes Fly I know the F/As did not participate in the EFLOP.

 

[aafsc]

Don't you mean US Airways? I do believe they were the first to lose the pensions and pay. No wait, I believe it was AA who took the first concensions (outside of BK! )

[post="288326"][/post]​

But, unlike you, we still have our pensions and other post retirement benefits.

 

[aafsc]

And we did not take a paycut since 1994 for an ESOP only to watch it evaporate in bankruptcy. (And I know that the F/As at UA were the only group to say no to the ESOP).

 

[MCI transplant]

But, unlike you, we still have our pensions and other post retirement benefits.

[post="288336"][/post]​

<_< Bit you tongue!!!! Someone might hear you!!!!!! Signed: "Just another one of aa's redheaded stepchildren!!!!"

 

[Fly]

I still have a pension....it's just funded by the PBGC. Unfortunately, IMHO, I think to compete against the LLC's who do not have defined pensions, all the majors will drop their pension funding eventually.