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Oliver Stone : Hitler a scapegoat !

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joanne

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http://huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/11/olive..._n_-418304.html

Can't get this link to work. My apologies.

However, If I'm reading Stones opinion about Hitler correctly than this is very disturbing.

***** Garfield, because you have such first hand knowledge about this situation(the Holocaust), I'm curious as to your opinion.

Where I think Stone is going with this, is that AH was the "point man", the Up front guy.

BUT, who else was working with him BEHIND the SCENES ????

We already know for sure that the Church in Rome, in particuliar Pius the 12th was in AH's "back pocket", as were the Swiss !!

Also, since this is Oliver Stone, stay tuned for the Stone detractors. The ones that think Oswald got off the 3 PERFECT shots...aka..the "Magic Bullet"

Lets see Who is the First "magic bullet" proponent to post !
(I've got 3 "usual suspects" in mind)
 
Hmm..........looks like a Ghost town around here ! Must be the UN-interesting topic ! :down:
 
Duh.......

You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.
 
While I agree that Adolf Hitler had more than a few in higher places that were sympathetic to his message and actions. There were several prominent figures such as Henry Ford and Charles Lindburgh who were quite vocal in their opinions prior to the outbreak of war.

However I think it grossly off base to state Hitler was a "scapegoat". A better description migh be that those who were sympathetic "Unindicted co-conspirators" and his point that there were quite a few is accurate.

I'm no fan of Mr Stone's veiws, however his point in this case though IMO poorly stated has merit and those who were sympathizers should be exposed.

Far more dangerous than Mr Stone are the those who deny the existance of the Holocaust.
 
SparrowHawk said:
Far more dangerous than Mr Stone are the those who deny the existance of the Holocaust.
Click to expand...


I have always wondered about that.

Part of me thinks that those who deny the Holocaust or the landing on the moon are so far out there that their number of followers are limited. On the other hand, their followers are going to be as nutty as they are and that may make them more dangerous.

As for the folks who are not so far out there but say that Hitler was not so bad and he was manipulated or that Pol Pot was misunderstood could be worse IMO. They are presenting something that is at time plausible or more difficult to disprove. Could that not attract more followers than a full blown nut job?
 
Garfield1966 said:
I have always wondered about that.

Part of me thinks that those who deny the Holocaust or the landing on the moon are so far out there that their number of followers are limited. On the other hand, their followers are going to be as nutty as they are and that may make them more dangerous.

As for the folks who are not so far out there but say that Hitler was not so bad and he was manipulated or that Pol Pot was misunderstood could be worse IMO. They are presenting something that is at time plausible or more difficult to disprove. Could that not attract more followers than a full blown nut job?
Click to expand...

While I have little direct knowledge of Pol Pot other than that wonderful movie a few years back that stared Sam Waterston and Dith Pran, I do have the stories from my uncle who was involved in the Liberation of at least one camp during WWII.

One of the little known pieces of post war history is the orders from General Eisenhower was to rotate over 250,000 US troops through the clean up of the various camps. Plus he required the local German citizens take an active role in the clean up as well. When asked why Eisenhower replied "Because 50 years from now people will say the atrocities never happened"

This is the key point and I worry that Oliver Stone's comments will only fuel the Holocaust denial movement. This my prior comment regarding Mr Stone
 
I agree. I also wonder if some of this is not a product of time. People do not say that the massacre of the native Americans did not happen or that slavery did not happen but they do seem like they discount what happened. I do not think a lot of people understand what it is like to have your people hunted down and slaughtered or what it is like to wake up every living day as the property of another merely for the fact that your skin is the wrong color. The more it gets discounted or relegated to "OH, that's old history." the more it becomes less important and and can be altered from what really happened. My family knows what really happened in the camps. I know a lot of what happened .. not sure what the next generations will now.

Perhaps soon people will not have to deny it happened, they just won't remember that it did.
 
joanne said:
http://huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/11/olive..._n_-418304.html

Can't get this link to work. My apologies.

However, If I'm reading Stones opinion about Hitler correctly than this is very disturbing.

***** Garfield, because you have such first hand knowledge about this situation(the Holocaust), I'm curious as to your opinion.

Where I think Stone is going with this, is that AH was the "point man", the Up front guy.

BUT, who else was working with him BEHIND the SCENES ????

We already know for sure that the Church in Rome, in particuliar Pius the 12th was in AH's "back pocket", as were the Swiss !!
Click to expand...

Here's the link.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/11/o...a_n_418304.html

I'm really not sure what he means by "Hitler is an easy scapegoat throughout history and it's been used cheaply" because he did not expand on it. Like a lot of self righteous celebrities he can talk for hours and say absolutely nothing.

One comment that did catch my eye. "Stalin has a complete other story. Not to paint him as a hero, but to tell a more factual representation. He fought the German war machine more than any person."

I hope in his little TV series he is making he includes all the facts bout Stalin. For example how Stalin is responsible for the murder of tens of millions of Soviet citizens. Either through starvation, execution or a slow death in forced labor camps. Or that he signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler. Or that when Hitler invaded Poland Stalin sent in the Red Army. After which he ordered the execution of 10000 thousand Polish army officers. One the big reasons why the first year of the war went so badly for the USSR was that half of the Red Army's officer corps was executed in the Great Purges. Others were sent to labor camps. So what you had left in the summer of 1941 was a Red Army without effective leadership.

Oliver Stone IMO is an arrogant, self righteous hypocrite. You would have to either be totally delusional or have an ego the size of Everest to say "I've been able to walk in Stalin's shoes and Hitler's shoes, to understand their point of view. All I can say is, WOW!
 
joanne said:
Also, since this is Oliver Stone, stay tuned for the Stone detractors. The ones that think Oswald got off the 3 PERFECT shots...aka..the "Magic Bullet"

Lets see Who is the First "magic bullet" proponent to post !
(I've got 3 "usual suspects" in mind)
Click to expand...

Don't tell me your one of those people who believes that Oliver Stones portrayal of the Kennedy assassination in JFK is how it actually happened?

If you are you might want to look into the multitude of inaccuracies, and out right fantasies in that movie. It's funny that Oliver Stone will talk about the need for an accurate representation of history and yet will make a movie like JFK.
 
777 fixer said:
Don't tell me your one of those people who believes that Oliver Stones portrayal of the Kennedy assassination in JFK is how it actually happened?

If you are you might want to look into the multitude of inaccuracies, and out right fantasies in that movie. It's funny that Oliver Stone will talk about the need for an accurate representation of history and yet will make a movie like JFK.
Click to expand...




'777 fixer'

Your's is a good point, a lot of hollywood mixed into JFK.
But without knowing you, I'm SURE you don't buy the Oswald 3 perfect shots/magic bullet theory.

Garfield,
Your right as you usually are. The answers that are given by some about the Holochoust/slavery/Wounded knee or sand creek (just to name a few of the NA atrocities) are, as we discussed before on a different matter), is the "guaranteed"....."Yeah-BUT" !!!

Sparrow,
Your's is a good reply IMO as well.
Your willing to look past OS's "overkill" to see that the guy does makes sense a fair number of times.
 
I hope in his little TV series he is making he includes all the facts bout Stalin. For example how Stalin is responsible for the murder of tens of millions of Soviet citizens. Either through starvation, execution or a slow death in forced labor camps. Or that he signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler. Or that when Hitler invaded Poland Stalin sent in the Red Army. After which he ordered the execution of 10000 thousand Polish army officers. One the big reasons why the first year of the war went so badly for the USSR was that half of the Red Army's officer corps was executed in the Great Purges. Others were sent to labor camps. So what you had left in the summer of 1941 was a Red Army without effective leadership.
Click to expand...

Another view?
 
joanne said:
'777 fixer'

Your's is a good point, a lot of hollywood mixed into JFK.
But without knowing you, I'm SURE you don't buy the Oswald 3 perfect shots/magic bullet theory.
Click to expand...

Having been trained by the USMC and attaining a sharpshooter rating I would say yes, he could have made those shots. Especially when a Marine marksmanship expert said he could have easily made them.
 
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