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OT Why Work It?

not working o/t is not the answer some how or another the company always seems to get by. Just like when there crew sch. calls for 5 guys and only 2 show they don't call o/t and the day goes just fine do delays etc.. etc..


where will they outsource the work china, mexico, and etc just to name a few (repair stations don't need a A&P i.e. most jobs at tulsa don't require a A&P)

Heres one for you bob I filed a greviance over rockwell years ago from what I understand we won the greviance to get all that work done by us, but the intl. gave it back to the company. How does rockwell accomplish line maint. under a repair station license? How does fleet servise accomplish wing ice inspection/check? They have no A&P

Its time for the o/h bases to get on board 24/7

buy the way line mech. out number the base numbers last time I checked

hey goey how is sfo doing after laying off so many guys last year?
So you think that all this capacity is being maintained and they are all just waiting for work from AA? Then why doesnt AA send it out? We know they can, like the 727s they sent to Delta and the 747s they sent to TWA years ago. Sure China does some work for US Carriers but no US carrier that I know of flies 757s to China. Besides the Aviation market in China is expanding at a far greater rate than it is in the US, their ability to maintain their own growing fleet will put pressure on their 3P capacity. I've been there, have you? While you may think China has all those people and no shortage of workers they do have a shortage of people with the skillsets required for Aircraft Maintenence. In China men outnumber women by a wide margin, so the only men that will be sending on their genes will be those who have jobs that are considered prestigeous, even in China aircraft maintenance is not considered prestigeous. The likelyhood of finding a mate in that culture is diminished if one chooses to work with their hands, may as well work construction and at least be able to socialize. Luckily for us women here cant be as choosy!

Maybe they could fly it to Mexico but what makes you think they have a spot for our stuff? Aviation is expanding there more rapidly than here as well.

It's my understanding that Rockwell, as well as Panasonic hire A&Ps. In fact Panasonic hires A&Ps out of school with no experience for $26/hr while AA is offering $14.75 plus lic($5) with a two year experience requirement($17 in Flex locations).

When was it that line outnumbers the bases? While total line may have come pretty close to Tulsa the line never outnumbered the total of all the bases.

The pendulum has swung. A recent CNN article on Spartan Aviation in Tulsa a representative from AAR says they are trying to hire "10, 20 to 30 almost every week". Well the FAA only issues enough certs for around 3000 A&Ps a year and here we have a single employer who needs between 500 to 1500 a year. Up to half the total. AA is looking to add 900 this year. So between AAR and AA they could require nearly 3/4ths of the production for the industry. That leaves just 600 new mechanics for the thousands of other companies that hire A&Ps. With the surge of retirees we will likley see once the contract is settled that may not be enough for just AA . Even if AA doesnt grow they will likely need at least 500 mechanics a year just to make up for retirement driven attrition.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2011/03/09/foreman.bua.flight.school.cnn?hpt=T2

As I said before the huge amounts of OT mask the shortage*. I've been told that some were upset that I mentioned that if we all stopped working OT across the industry that hundreds , if not thousands of planes would be grounded, but I believe that to be the truth. Our willingness (even though it may be driven by necessity) to work OT and second jobs as A&Ps in the Aviation industry undermines the advantage we have and our ability to capitalize on it. AA alone would have to hire thousands more, even if they sent the work out the hours of A&P labor dont dissapear, they just get transferred. Working OT and second jobs has the net effect of artificially increasing the supply of mechanic labor. This opportunity may well be short lived, FAR 66 could rear its ugly head again. If we are going to capitalize on it and make gains we as a craft will have to make sacrifices in the near future, only this time the sacrifices wont be with the goal of making someone else better off (executive bonuses etc), it will be with the goal of making ourselves better off.


* FAA data indicates there are far more license holders than jobs however the FAA does not monitor whether holders are active or even alive, the shortage is purely based upon the fact that the consumers (Airlines etc) refuse to pay enough to motivate the inactive suppliers (A&P holders that no longer seek to work in the industry) to bring their product to this market. The willingness of currently active suppliers(A&Ps working in the industry) to increase production (work more hours) allows the consumers to keep the price they pay for labor low. Mechanics, if they want to see their wages increase need to do the same thing the airlines did to raise ticket prices-reduce production(capacity).
 
It's my understanding that Rockwell, as well as Panasonic hire A&Ps. In fact Panasonic hires A&Ps out of school with no experience for $26/hr while AA is offering $14.75 plus lic($5) with a two year experience requirement($17 in Flex locations).
One of the Panasonic reps that load data on our retros is a layed off AA mechanic (7 years ago). He recently refused recall as he considered Panasonic more stable employment.
 
I like what Bob says, but he think he is way off. I think Bob is underestimating the industry's ability to adapt to ever changing environment. In 2003 NWA, UAL and DAL did away with their OH and the MRO industry picked it up, not to mention all the line mechs and small line stations that were let go. contract maintenance picked up that work. Recently MSP and DTW were closed as class 2 stations, we're still flying there with contract maintenance doing the work. The same with SNA a couple of years ago.

In China they like to work so they can eat and provide for the families, no social security there. Not all jobs are to pickup the ladies.
 
+1 I would add an LMP premium, fleet qual premiums and a REAL shift differential 20% for midnights

I have no animosity against the OH bases, line and OH have different skill sets. I just don't want to take less money so OH can keep their 5 day schedule, and that is not a strike issue for most line mechs. Besides a 24/7 schedule would mean more mechs.
 
I like what Bob says, but he think he is way off. I think Bob is underestimating the industry's ability to adapt to ever changing environment. In 2003 NWA, UAL and DAL did away with their OH and the MRO industry picked it up, not to mention all the line mechs and small line stations that were let go. contract maintenance picked up that work. Recently MSP and DTW were closed as class 2 stations, we're still flying there with contract maintenance doing the work. The same with SNA a couple of years ago.

In China they like to work so they can eat and provide for the families, no social security there. Not all jobs are to pickup the ladies.


You might want to ask the gate agents at MSP how terrorist owned "jet pro" is doing with their scab maintenance. I hear ORD MX is loving the field trips to MSP again.
 
You might want to ask the gate agents at MSP how terrorist owned "jet pro" is doing with their scab maintenance. I hear ORD MX is loving the field trips to MSP again.
Who gives a crap about jet pro? The field trips to MSP are just fine, just like they were before we had MSP maint. Just like in 2003 when ORD wasn't doing field trips and DFW mechs were going to IND on field trips.
 
Who gives a crap about jet pro? The field trips to MSP are just fine, just like they were before we had MSP maint. Just like in 2003 when ORD wasn't doing field trips and DFW mechs were going to IND on field trips.

Oh yea,, I remember that,,, the selp imposed ord field trip ban...
 
Oh yea,, I remember that,,, the selp imposed ord field trip ban...
That's exactly right, OT and field trip bans are only good if EVERYBODY is on board, otherwise you just look like a fool turning down a chance to earn extra money. We were told everybody was on board. That is why I'm not for any type of OT boycott.

Let us, let the negotiators do their negotiating without any outside interferance like a work action that is destined to fail. Listen to the tone of dallas conehead reply, and I don't fault him one bit. That was ORD's moronic way of trying to make a point to AA, all AA did was dialup DFW instead of ORD for feild trips. ORD mechs really showed AA who was in charge, while DFW mechs made money on feild trips.
 
That's exactly right, OT and field trip bans are only good if EVERYBODY is on board, otherwise you just look like a fool turning down a chance to earn extra money. We were told everybody was on board. That is why I'm not for any type of OT boycott.

Let us, let the negotiators do their negotiating without any outside interferance like a work action that is destined to fail. Listen to the tone of dallas conehead reply, and I don't fault him one bit. That was ORD's moronic way of trying to make a point to AA, all AA did was dialup DFW instead of ORD for feild trips. ORD mechs really showed AA who was in charge, while DFW mechs made money on feild trips.
This is exactly why aa mechanics are in a pickel.....NO UNITY! When ORD decided to fore go field trips word should have spread systemwide, and that's up to our leadership to spread the word. Oh I forgot, we have no leadership! It's all about MEEEEEE! Thanks DFW!
 
I'm ready to walk now. Looks like Strikeforce is too. What about the rest of you?
 
That's exactly right, OT and field trip bans are only good if EVERYBODY is on board, otherwise you just look like a fool turning down a chance to earn extra money. We were told everybody was on board. That is why I'm not for any type of OT boycott.

Let us, let the negotiators do their negotiating without any outside interferance like a work action that is destined to fail. Listen to the tone of dallas conehead reply, and I don't fault him one bit. That was ORD's moronic way of trying to make a point to AA, all AA did was dialup DFW instead of ORD for feild trips. ORD mechs really showed AA who was in charge, while DFW mechs made money on feild trips.
Your joking about letting the negotiators do there JOB lol. I'm not to sure where you have had your head stuck lately, but we have been stuck on artilce 12 for aleast 3-4 sessions. The company is not moving and the union appears not to be willing to move. Artilce 12 how is it that even article that had to be reopened up?

Just cann't wait for the update tomorrow . We met with AA march 7-11 and contiue to discuss article 12 Thank You and stay Informed the TWU

The so called reasons for the contract being rejected 1. pay/retro 2. retiring med. 3. the bases not wanting to work 24/7. At least thats the rumor in ord, because are local has never came out and told us why it was rejected. Oh yea we are the new informed membership now lol.

Our unions new negotiation crew wanted to start from square one, I guess they are really intuned with are membership.

When AA decides to give you something they will. Just like back in 95, untill then we can go back in are hole.


And Bobs thing about losing 500 A&P is way over stated, go check the senoirity lists. American eagle has a direct hiring agreement with OK. avaition department. the rules will be rewrote and AA will continue on with or with out you

Yes we have made great and many scarifices for AA, but it is obvious they don't share the same ideas as us
 
Your joking about letting the negotiators do there JOB lol. I'm not to sure where you have had your head stuck lately, but we have been stuck on artilce 12 for aleast 3-4 sessions. The company is not moving and the union appears not to be willing to move. Artilce 12 how is it that even article that had to be reopened up?

Just cann't wait for the update tomorrow . We met with AA march 7-11 and contiue to discuss article 12 Thank You and stay Informed the TWU

The so called reasons for the contract being rejected 1. pay/retro 2. retiring med. 3. the bases not wanting to work 24/7. At least thats the rumor in ord, because are local has never came out and told us why it was rejected. Oh yea we are the new informed membership now lol.

Our unions new negotiation crew wanted to start from square one, I guess they are really intuned with are membership.

When AA decides to give you something they will. Just like back in 95, untill then we can go back in are hole.


And Bobs thing about losing 500 A&P is way over stated, go check the senoirity lists. American eagle has a direct hiring agreement with OK. avaition department. the rules will be rewrote and AA will continue on with or with out you

Yes we have made great and many scarifices for AA, but it is obvious they don't share the same ideas as us

Don't you mean March 8-10, they gotta have travel days you know.
 
There is only ONE way to turn up the heat on this conmpany.....AND IT AIN'T TALK OF A STRIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So when big shot elitist flyers like 737823 get inconvenienced, they write letters to Arpey about how they'll take their business elsewhere unless he goes bankrupt and busts all the unions...blah blah blah.
 

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