Small airlines like America West are able to convince their employees to basically settle for less than the big guys get, otherwise they would go out of busines. Unlike what is told at AA, its probably true. Thats the way its been done in this industry. The big guys set the rate everyone else works up to them. So lower wages put in place by the TWU at AA, thanks to OH in low cost areas, keeps most mechanics wages low across the industry.
Bob, that’s not what I asked. While smaller, only one carrier at the time was bigger than AA, than us America West was still a major airline.
If not for the low TWU rates at AA SWA would probably be as high as UPS!
You accuse me of making assumptions. Well Bob this is an assumption as well.
Well lets stick to those carriers that didnt go BK.
No Bob, everything is fair game. But what the heck I’ll play by your rules. Number one, Alaska has not declared BK. When they got rid of their heavy maintenance operation did the pay for those that were left go up? Lets include Continental, when they closed their LAX facility they were not in BK. Did their pay climb as a result?
About the same as ours but they still get Holiday pay and doubletime, but then again you are comparing a bankrupt airline to one that isnt.
As of 1/1/2007 the topped out hourly rate for AA AMT’s was $26.40. With a license premium of $5.00. Shift differential for afternoons is one cent and midnights two cents. Nothing to write home about that’s for sure. Then there’s the line premium of .55 cents. For United its $25.13 with a license premium $3.94. Shift differential was .45 cents for afternoons and .51 cents for midnights. Don’t know if they have something like a line premium or not.
United does get eight paid holidays at double time where as we get five at time and a half. However Bob their overtime pay is time and a half as well. There’s something very important that you left out. The fact that United handed their pension over to the PBGC, at a somewhat reduced rate of retirement pay. Then there’s the ESOP deal. All that money they gave up in return for stock in the company that was supposed to allow them to have very comfortable retirement. Well as we all know its pretty much worthless now. Basically a 100% reduction in benefit.
You also left out the part about IND and OAK being closed.
SWA mechanics get $7/hour more than we do, they get Holiday pay, doubletime, sick time(ironically there pending legislation that would require a mimimum annual sick time allottment that surpasses our union negotiated sick time allotment)shift premiums etc.
I’ll take a page out of your play book. Lets stick to carriers that have NOT made a profit in every year of their history.
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So under past and current conditions if there were no OH at AA line maintenace mechanics at AA would be better off. If you disagree please inform me as to what benifit line maintenance has recieved by being aligned with OH? Does that mean I hope they get rid of all OH? NO, I wish that they would realize that just because they can live comfortably in Tulsa or MCI that does not mean its good enough for everyone else. After all how would they like it if the company said that OH mechanics in El Salvador live comfortably on $5/hr so thats all they were willing to pay them in Tulsa or MCI?
When guys like you talk about the profession what you are really talking about is the line AMT at an airline. So far I have yet to see anything positive for line AMT’s at other carriers that have either reduced the amount of OH they do or gotten rid of it entirely. Do you think it would be somehow beneficial for the profession as a whole if OH were to go overseas or just airline mechanics? Since you have such little faith in the TWU what makes you think they would be able to negotiate something better anyway if we did get rid of OH?
Bob, I guess I’m a bit confused by some of your comments. On one hand you seem to think that we on the line would be better off without OH. On the other hand you say you don’t want AA to get rid of it. Which is it? I have heard so say that we should separate from overhaul and have totally separate contract from OH. Are you one of those that subscribes to that idea?
Like the pilots who got back 10% after just the first year?
Do you mean 10% of 100% or half of the 20 or so percent they gave up? Not that it really matters since that’s not what I was asking you in the first place. Do you really think that as a line AMT you would have gone unscathed if AA had dumped OH? If you do precedence says otherwise. Also don’t forget that there are no longer any AA cabin cleaners working nights. It’s all been contracted out. Did the pay and benefits of those that kept their jobs remain untouched?
Well you are basing this all on a lot of assumptions.
Bob so far you have made one assumption after another.
I say that the reason AA kept, and continues to keep OH is because with OSMs and the location of OH in low cost of living areas AA has enjoyed a low cost advantage for 20 years. If they outsourced they would be dumping hundreds of more aircraft into the MRO market and they no longer would have enjoyed the cost advantage they were used to. They would have to pay the same as everyone else. By bringing work in house they will end up with in house maintenace that cheaper than paying an MRO to do it plus they have the advantage of better quality control which saves operating costs down the road.
If AA has a cost advantage over third party providers it’s not because of wages and benefits. Do you know anyone who has actually worked for one of those companies? I do and they all say the same thing, the reason they left was the pay and benefits were lower than ours. Before you go rambling about “low cost areas†like TUL or OSM’a let me point out a little fact for you. Most of these third party providers are in places like Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Tucson, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, ETC. They also have had non-licensed people working there for years. Making less than our OSM’s I might add.
First, would AA have gone BK and gotten rid of OH? I doubt it,
I wonder how many people over at NWA thought the same thing.
but if they had we wouldnt have faired any worse, our concessions screwed those who were in BK because we gave up more outside of BK than any of those carriers had taken in BK. Our concessions sent them all back to ask for another round.
What does having US Air and UAL terminating their pension plans and sending it over to the PBGC has to do with us? Is that somehow our fault? Is it our fault that the ESOP shares that ALPA and IAM represented employees gave up pay for are now worthless? Using your logic I could turn around and say that since the IAM and AMFA failed to hold the line against outsourcing it made that much easier for AA to hold a gun against our head.
Another thing, who exactly is "we"? What about the proffesion as a whole? How would the proffesion fair if all of a sudden another major airline was sending work to third party shops here in the states and overseas?
So the fact is that the pilots, while they did take cuts, took much less of a cut than we did, and they are more pissed about it than you TWU apologists are, and rightly so.
Bob, that’s the second time that you have accused me of being a TWU apologist. That seems to be your standard drill when someone disagrees with you. Go through my posts and tell me where I have been a “TWU apologist†like Bill or HSS. My position is that while the TWU has not done a very good job representing us neither have the unions at other carriers.
