Pay Cuts Announced

LiveInAHotel said:
I could careless what he/she is. We got to decide to vote yes or no. Even no we got screwed by JW, he is now gone!

I will gloat all the way to the bank because AA is not in danger of Chapet 11, unlike the Widget!
[post="185668"][/post]​

Not according to this source:

BY JAMES BERNSTEIN
Newsday STAFF WRITER

September 29, 2004

With United Airlines and US Airways in bankruptcy, and Delta Air Lines threatening to file for Chapter 11 protection, American Airlines stands out. It managed to avoid that fate last year by slashing its own costs, and even eked out a small $6 million profit in its most recent quarter.

But despite American's success, analysts said yesterday they doubt that the carrier can stay above water much longer, especially as its rivals cut even deeper into their own costs. If it falters under its huge debt load, they warned, American could also find itself headed for bankruptcy.

To be sure, American's officials believe they have managed to get a step ahead of the other old-line carriers, and earlier this month, the country's largest airline let the world know it.

The Fort Worth-based airline unveiled a new advertising campaign - its first in a decade. American's "We know why you fly" spots have been running on television in New York and in other select major markets, and on cable nationally. The ads attempt to capitalize on cutbacks at other airlines, mostly by emphasizing the number of American flights - 3,800 a day - and its huge route system.

"Even though it's a rough financial time for airlines now, that works in our favor because it gives us the opportunity to say not only have we been re-working our company and making it better, but we also have this 75-year history," Tim Wagner, an American spokesman, said yesterday. "We're a little ahead of the game."

By contrast, Delta, which has repeatedly said it must cut costs sharply to remain free of bankruptcy, announced a 10 percent pay cut for executives and most employees yesterday. Delta also raised the employee cost of health-care coverage and ended a subsidy for retiree medical benefits.

But American is far from a healthy airline, analysts said, citing its $19 billion in debt. "There's no way they can avoid bankruptcy in my view," said Vaughn Cordle, chief analyst at Airline Forecasts LLC in Washington, D.C. "They can't shed debt outside of bankruptcy like they can inside bankruptcy."

American declined to respond to analysts' comments. But Wagner said American's turnaround plan has already identified $4 billion in costs the airline can eliminate, including more than $1 billion in labor costs. Wagner said American does not plan on asking employees for more cuts.

The airline employs a total of 101,000 people, including 4,800 in the New York metropolitan area, more than any other carrier.

American yesterday said that it is recalling 610 furloughed flight attendants to four "bases," including LaGuardia Airport, beginning Nov. 17. American cited an increase in international and widebody flying slated to begin in December, and a "slight uptick" in attrition levels.

But as evidence that American remains very much a struggling carrier, analysts noted that only last week, the airline's holding company, AMR Corp., said August revenue was weaker than expected after hurricanes and mounting fuel prices. American said it was reducing some flights and considering charging for on-board food.

Robert W. Mann, an independent airline analyst in Port Washington, said American has been able to wring more productivity out of its flight crews and airplanes in the last year or so, largely through better scheduling strategies.

"They are ahead of the other carriers," Mann said. "But they are far from out of the woods."

Competition from low-cost carriers such as JetBlue Airways of Forest Hills and Southwest Airlines of Dallas and higher fuel costs all combine to make life miserable for American and other big airlines.

The outlook for them remains bleak, said Alan Bender, a professor of aeronautical science at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Fla.

"I think every single one of the legacy airlines is facing bankruptcy, including American," Bender said.
 
Deleted by Moderator said:
American yesterday said that it is recalling 610 furloughed flight attendants to four "bases," including LaGuardia Airport, beginning Nov. 17. American cited an increase in international and widebody flying slated to begin in December, and a "slight uptick" in attrition levels.
[post="185944"][/post]​

With these recalls, Hotel should be able to park his water truck and start flying again, so he should be happy. However, being happy at the misfortunes of others shows that he has more issues than merely being misinformed.
 
aislehopper said:
With these recalls, Hotel should be able to park his water truck and start flying again, so he should be happy. However, being happy at the misfortunes of others shows that he has more issues than merely being misinformed.
[post="185955"][/post]​


What is park my water truck? Considering I'm flying in BOS and have never been furloughed, that would be funny.

I think it's safe to say you're bent out of shape because you're now stuck with Song. You signed on the dotted line knowing that you have no chance to return to DL mainline. You sit behind your little computer trying to insult me and it has no effect. You have no idea who I'm and you can say and think you do. Seeing that we both shared the same crashpad in Kew Gardens at one point with 25 or so other airline employees it would be hard to truly figure out who I'm.

Enjoy your BK and Song when it fails! If Song fails you will be out of work. Then you can go drive this so called water truck that you have a fasination for.
 
AMR is in the same position DAL was in 2 years ago - Delta had loads of cash on hand in order to avoid bankruptcy; AA let it run down so they could force the issue of paycuts with labor. Just as AA got its concessions a year and a half ago, DL will get its now outside of bankruptcy. The question is whether AA asked for enough; Grinstein's tack seems to be to ask for as much as any legacy carrier could expect to extract and thus not need to go back for a second round. By my calculations, Delta will have a CASM in the low 9s or better after these cuts go into place - that is far lower than any other carrier right now. And even though Delta may be facing pension and debt payments of over $1 Billion for the next several years, AA's very fast cash buildup is testament to how much cash an airline can generate.
 
LiveInAHotel said:
You have no idea who I'm and you can say and think you do. Seeing that we both shared the same crashpad in Kew Gardens at one point with 25 or so other airline employees it would be hard to truly figure out who I'm.
[post="186001"][/post]​

You say that we shared a crashpad with 25 or so others? If this is true, I think most on this board, and most in your life, would agree that your personality would have set you apart from the other 24 or so others in the crash pad. Although you try to hide behind the skirts of your fictional mother character that you invented for this site, your personality betrays your identity. You are easy to spot, Gunga Din.
 
Deleted by Moderator said:
Did you miss the part where they said American can't avoid bankruptcy?
[post="186047"][/post]​

He has a tendancy to ignore facts that are not consistent with what he already believes. . .
 
World, I think Grinstein knows what anyone looking at the USAir section here can see, that a great deal of the anger and distrust was generated by USAir mgmt coming back for another cut again and again. So he wanted to forestall all that by doing it once. Instead he's got the pilots worried that it is too much, and that it won't be a one off. And because his crystal ball isn't perfect, Grinstein can't guarantee that he won't be back. But I think his reasoning is right. The short-tem issue is that if, thanks to all the hurricanes FL has a miserable high season, Delta could lose more cash in what is normally a strong season for N-S carriers.
 
aislehopper said:
You say that we shared a crashpad with 25 or so others? If this is true, I think most on this board, and most in your life, would agree that your personality would have set you apart from the other 24 or so others in the crash pad. Although you try to hide behind the skirts of your fictional mother character that you invented for this site, your personality betrays your identity. You are easy to spot, Gunga Din.
[post="186051"][/post]​

Hotel has said s/he is out of here after they get their 777 payout. Well, good news is that it's only two more weeks before their retirement. I still think s/he is that Travis fellow who used to spew nastiness on other bb's.
 
So, let me get this straight now.

"Grinch stein' HIT everyone with a 10% pay cut , EXCEPT the unionized pilots, correct ???

(I fully realize that if DL goes BK-11, ALL bets are off, FOR ALL EMPLOYEES)

Now IF DL DOES NOT go BK-11, then only the UNIONIZED employees continue on, "status quo" ???

"IF" jerry is about to GO into BK-11, then can DALPA pilots retire BEFORE he goes in(Bk-11), and take a "lump sum" retirement cash payout(rumored to be close to 1 million $$$,), BEFORE DL could hypothetically "dump" the pension plan ??????

If any of my questions result in a YES answer, than it's safe to say that;(like the American Express commercial)

"MEMBERSHIP has it's privilege" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A point(not so)subtly made on this board, by a certain AA F/a :shock: :shock:

NH/BB's
 
Far be it for me, part of the dying US Airways, to make judgements on Delta, but I do question the small paycut that management wants from the non-union groups...which is about everybody. Now before all of you blast me for this, I have looked at and compared the labor cost of DAL vs. USA and with the bleeding of both companies it appears the 10% asked is proporionately smaller considering the difference in airline size. While it is true we took big cuts, it still "appears" to have not been enough. The amount of loss at DAL has been much more then US (much because you are larger), it still seems a very large underestimate AND that doesn't involve the pilots part. AND, the pilots seem hell bent on not giving anywhere near the 1 billion DAL wants. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

SO...having said that, could this 10% across the board paycut be breathing room to negotiate with the pilots? Nothing like alittle divide and conquer to put the pressure on. Sure worked at US for years.

OR, is DAL setting themselves up so they CAN go in chapter 11 and either blame the pilots or make the claim that 10% just wasn't enough..another US tactic.

God, I really do have got to get a life. :unsure: :blink: :(
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
So, let me get this straight now.

"Grinch stein' HIT everyone with a 10% pay cut , EXCEPT the unionized pilots, correct ???


"MEMBERSHIP has it's privilege" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A point(not so)subtly made on this board, by a certain AA F/a :shock: :shock:

NH/BB's
[post="186141"][/post]​

NHBB's:

In a company where the labor costs of all groups except the pilots are in line with the competition, I think that it is pretty safe to assume that pilot labor costs will soon be reduced dramatically, either in Chapter 11 or outside. It will be more than 10% - most likely the package will be valued between 700M and 1B. The status quo will not be lasting much longer. If the pilots and management do not come to an agreement soon, their contract will be washed in a Section 1113 hearing.


For a Delta pilot's perspective, seeClick here, then click on Delta Articles

I am not sure of the specifics of the lump sum, but I believe that the company and the pilots reached a deal which will allow recently retired pilots to continue to fly after retirement. The deal also stipulates that Delta will not terminate the pilots retirement plan until February of next year.

For the pilots, membership has so far had it privileges.

Whether the point of our favorite cyber crossdresser is valid still remains to be seen. US Airways flight attendants are in their second or third round of concessions. I heard that the latest is a 23% pay cut being considered on top of what they have already given up.

UAL has given concessions, and some are not happy with afa-CWA representation, hence the UFAU movement.

AA gave back roughly 15 percent, and then thrashed for months about the methodology used to vote. Also, they thrashed about for the better part of a year about just who was going to be president and whose ballots should be counted.

It seems to me that all in all, my group of flight attendants is not faring much worse that our peers at the legacy carriers. In some cases, we are faring better. If so, this shows that sometimes the "hassle factor" of membership outweighs the privileges of membership.

At this time, for us, I believe this to be the case.

ah
 
1st,
Consider the productivity (revenue or ASMs per employee) of Delta compared with other airlines – Delta is well above AA and UA in productivity and in the same league as CO and NW. US has been dead last in productivity for a number of years which is part of the reason why you are being asked to take disproportionately large cuts. Let’s also not forget that just about everyone agrees that US is out to destroy its labor by the size of the cuts it is making and seems to be unable to find other places besides labor to cut costs. That being the case, I don’t think US should be the yardstick for how other airlines restructure. In reality, DL employees will be back in the same league paywise as other network legacy employees but will be much more productive – thus lower costs than other legacy competitors.

NHBB,
Don’t assume for one minute that the pilots who stay will be coughing up plenty of cash and will be spending far more time in Delta’s cockpits. Yes, the pilots who were going to retire would have done it cuts and bankruptcy or not. As for membership, Delta has offered fairly reasonable retirement packages to non-pilot employees in the past as well. Based on the announcements this week, Delta will be dramatically cutting post-retirement healthcare benefits except for employees who took previous packages. And keep in mind that the whole reason the lump sum payout originated was the concern that pilots have about their pension in the event of bankruptcy – a much less concern. Less, membership does have its privileges but as we have seen time and time again, ALPA is real good at protecting the most senior pilots at all airlines while throwing the little guys under the bus.
 
Deleted by Moderator said:
Did you miss the part where they said American can't avoid bankruptcy?
[post="186047"][/post]​

That is the opinion of ONE (uno, un, eins) airline analyst. If Vaughn Cordle is the final word on all things airline then, I'm sure you will also agree with this quote from him to the Cincinnati Enquirer, ""Delta is not a viable business with its current plan."
 
WorldTraveler said:
1st,
Let’s also not forget that just about everyone agrees that US is out to destroy its labor by the size of the cuts it is making and seems to be unable to find other places besides labor to cut costs. That being the case, I don’t think US should be the yardstick for how other airlines restructure.

Now THAT'S the understatement of the day. :D :lol: ;)