Pensions

[eolesen]

Nice spin but what's the source of these "fact" statements? The PBGC? A union spokescritter? A blog?...

 

[FWAAA]

Just a cut and paste of a PBGC propaganda page:

http://www.pbgc.gov/wr/other/pg/american-airlines-pensions--get-the-facts.html

 

[TWU informer]

Just a cut and paste out of Star Telegram artcile regarding Executive Pension.

Horton's pension includes $805,030 in a retirement benefit plan and $3,605,329 in a nonqualified plan that can be paid in a lump sum when he retires. Former CEO Gerard Arpey, who resigned Nov. 28 and cannot draw his pension until he turns 55 in two years, has $1,020,964 in a retirement benefit plan and $5,746,393 in a nonqualified plan.

"The pensions are the most fruitful aspect of the compensation," Ruel said.

Read more here:
Full Article

Turn those two plans over to the PBGC and let them be reduced to under $50,000.00 per year instead millions.

 

[Buck]

I guess Horton's executive compensation is the fault of Tulsa.

You have to understand that talent must be retained, however that does not apply to maintenance.

 

[FWAAA]

Turn those two plans over to the PBGC and let them be reduced to under $50,000.00 per year instead millions.

Arpey and Horton's qualified plans will be limited to the PBGC limit (just like the pilots' A plan) if AA terminates its pension plans. Their ability to take lump sums of their qualified plans evaporated with the bankruptcy filing.

Are you advocating taking away their non-qualified pensions? If so, then for consistency, are you also in favor of confiscating the pilots' B plan - the defined contribution plan in which AA contributed 11% of their pay?

 

[TWU informer]

Arpey and Horton's qualified plans will be limited to the PBGC limit (just like the pilots' A plan) if AA terminates its pension plans. Their ability to take lump sums of their qualified plans evaporated with the bankruptcy filing.

Are you advocating taking away their non-qualified pensions? If so, then for consistency, are you also in favor of confiscating the pilots' B plan - the defined contribution plan in which AA contributed 11% of their pay?

No, just give all of us a non-qualifying B-plan too.
Since those items seem to be immune to this Chapter 11 Process, I want one too.

If we are going to have uniform Health Care Plans across the board, then let's have uniform Pension Plans too.

Just move all of mine into one of those safe haven plans and let me alone. Sounds fair to me.

 

[eolesen]

No, just give all of us a non-qualifying B-plan too.

Uh, it looks like that's what you're getting in the term sheet.

For all intents and purposes, the SERP and piilot B-funds are typically set up along the same provisions as a 401K. There are some minor differences, e.g. the company's contribution likely does not require anything from employee in those plans, where a matching 401K requires the employee to put in something before the match goes in.

 

[john john]

Arpey and Horton's qualified plans will be limited to the PBGC limit (just like the pilots' A plan) if AA terminates its pension plans. Their ability to take lump sums of their qualified plans evaporated with the bankruptcy filing.

Are you advocating taking away their non-qualified pensions? If so, then for consistency, are you also in favor of confiscating the pilots' B plan - the defined contribution plan in which AA contributed 11% of their pay?

Eric Geist, CWA research economist
Listen to the audio
Geist also noted that the airline’s “Don Carty plan,” which covers 46 executives, is not subject to the same rules as employees’ pension plans and will continue to operate even if the company terminates the other pensions. The plan had more than $13 million dollars for those 46 executives as of the end of 2010.
http://apsa6001.org/?p=457

 

[eolesen]

The plan had more than $13 million dollars for those 46 executives as of the end of 2010.

Wow, an average of less than $300K per each participant, or around $163 "stolen" from active employee...

Hardly seems worth all the effort expended over it in 2003, but that's what the unions and media wanted to focus on.

 

[TWU informer]

Uh, it looks like that's what you're getting in the term sheet.

For all intents and purposes, the SERP and piilot B-funds are typically set up along the same provisions as a 401K. There are some minor differences, e.g. the company's contribution likely does not require anything from employee in those plans, where a matching 401K requires the employee to put in something before the match goes in.

"Minor Differences" Are you serious? That is a HUGE difference.

Must twist and spin every issue to make them appear fair.

Next Paycheck Please

Must twist and spin every issue to make them appear fair.

Next Paycheck Please

Must twist and spin every issue to make them appear fair.

Next Paycheck Please

Must twist and spin every issue to make them appear fair.

Next Paycheck Please

I hardly see my potential 5.5% company match as being anything close to the Pilot/Management fully funded B-Plan.
Nice try though. How much does AA pay the company you for again?

 

[FWAAA]

The $13 million contributed to the SERP in late 2002 resulted in taxable income to the named executives, so the participants have already paid tax on their share of the funded portion.

From page 132 of the 2011 10-K filed last week (page 134 of the .pdf):

(1) We have partially funded the benefits under the Non-Qualified Plan into a trust as described in "Non-Qualified Plan." Assets in the trust are separate from our operating assets and become payable to the named executive officer only upon normal or early retirement. The amounts listed in this column for the Non-Qualified Plan reflect the present value of the total benefit payable under the Non-Qualified Plan to each of the named executive officers, without any reduction for amounts contributed to the trust.

(2) Tax laws treat the contributions made to the trust under the Non-Qualified Plan as taxable income to the named executive officers, requiring them to pay applicable federal, state and local income taxes. We did not reduce the Non-Qualified Plan amounts shown in this column to reflect the contributions to the trust or the tax liabilities since we will not know the impact of the tax liabilities until normal or early retirement. We, therefore, do not consider such amounts as paid from the Non-Qualified Plan until that time. For 2011, the gross benefit amounts and the applicable tax liability were:

 

[john john]

Hardly seems worth all the effort expended over it in 2003, but that's what the unions and media wanted to focus on.

Unions worrying and focusing on pension what is your interest and focus

 

[FWAAA]

I hardly see my potential 5.5% company match as being anything close to the Pilot/Management fully funded B-Plan.

If you're requesting equal retirement (same as the pilots get), why stop there? Why not demand equal pay? Topped out 777 captain gets a little more than $200k per year, so that would equal about $100/hr for mechanics (unless you want the same $205/hr for all 2,080 of your hours). Fair enough?

 

[john john]

The $13 million contributed to the SERP in late 2002 resulted in taxable income to the named executives, so the participants have already paid tax on their share of the funded portion.

From page 132 of the 2011 10-K filed last week (page 134 of the .pdf):

And whom do you think will pay the applicable tax liability

 

[Buck]

If you're requesting equal retirement (same as the pilots get), why stop there? Why not demand equal pay? Topped out 777 captain gets a little more than $200k per year, so that would equal about $100/hr for mechanics (unless you want the same $205/hr for all 2,080 of your hours). Fair enough?

Actually as a mechanic, I believe an adequate pension is something near what I am making when I retire, less benefits in this bankruptcy world.