Profit Sharing in 2008?

[StraaightTaalk]

If we continue to register strong numbers, and the 4th quarter is a good one, any conjecture as to what the average profit sharing payout is going to be?

 

[eolesen]

My prediction: Between $700 and $800 average (before taxes) for employees earning less than $80K.

Only 15% of the profits in excess of $500M go towards employee profit sharing, so if there's $1B in profits:

Total profit [ $1B ] - $500M = $500M x 0.15 = $75M, split amongst approx 80,000 employees = $937 per employee.

The formula has previously been based on a percentage of annual earnings x seniority.

So, pilots at max will get 2 or 3x the payout that a AMT or FA at max gets. Personally, I think it should be a peanut butter payout, i.e. the highest paid pilot and the most junior agent get the same dollar amount.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

My prediction: Between $700 and $800 average (before taxes) for employees earning less than $80K.

Only 15% of the profits in excess of $500M go towards employee profit sharing, so if there's $1B in profits:

Total profit [ $1B ] - $500M = $500M x 0.15 = $75M, split amongst approx 80,000 employees = $937 per employee.

The formula has previously been based on a percentage of annual earnings x seniority.

So, pilots at max will get 2 or 3x the payout that a AMT or FA at max gets. Personally, I think it should be a peanut butter payout, i.e. the highest paid pilot and the most junior agent get the same dollar amount.

Thanks for the numbers, e.

I agree. It should be spread equally.

Thanks again!

 

[Boomer]

My prediction: Between $700 and $800 average (before taxes) for employees earning less than $80K.

Only 15% of the profits in excess of $500M go towards employee profit sharing, so if there's $1B in profits:

Total profit [ $1B ] - $500M = $500M x 0.15 = $75M, split amongst approx 80,000 employees = $937 per employee.

The formula has previously been based on a percentage of annual earnings x seniority.

So, pilots at max will get 2 or 3x the payout that a AMT or FA at max gets. Personally, I think it should be a peanut butter payout, i.e. the highest paid pilot and the most junior agent get the same dollar amount.

It is obvious that AMR Management doesn't buy into your scenario.

 

[Bob Owens]

My prediction: Between $700 and $800 average (before taxes) for employees earning less than $80K.

About 18hrs of OT or less than 1 months worth of concessions after 4 years.

I'll take it and the Pizza but dont think that I'm ready to do any backflips for it.

 

[eolesen]

It is obvious that AMR Management doesn't buy into your scenario.

And neither does APA.... When I see Lloyd Hill leading the charge for peanut butter raises, I'll send in a contribution to the APA strike fund.

 

[desertfox]

My prediction: Between $700 and $800 average (before taxes) for employees earning less than $80K.

Only 15% of the profits in excess of $500M go towards employee profit sharing, so if there's $1B in profits:

Total profit [ $1B ] - $500M = $500M x 0.15 = $75M, split amongst approx 80,000 employees = $937 per employee.

The formula has previously been based on a percentage of annual earnings x seniority.

So, pilots at max will get 2 or 3x the payout that a AMT or FA at max gets. Personally, I think it should be a peanut butter payout, i.e. the highest paid pilot and the most junior agent get the same dollar amount.

Anyone know if the payout can be designated to be put directly into the persons AA 401k account?

 

[Boomer]

Eolesen,

I hope Capt. Lloyd Hill and all of the APA best wishes and good hunting in achieving what they set out to do.

I really do not care if the pension you and I were guaranteed are cratered in the process: as long as it stops the ba$tard$ in the front orifices from continuing the charade they have maintained to this point.

Regards and Good Hunting,
Boomer

 

[eolesen]

I'm beyond the point of no-return into the pension plan, so it's not going to affect me at this point because my pension is officially frozen, but I'm not sure I'd place revenge over bonus payouts as a higher priority than my retirement...

UAL has already proven that management will continue to take care of themselves even after a walk thru Ch.11.

 

[Boomer]

I'm beyond the point of no-return into the pension plan, so it's not going to affect me at this point because my pension is officially frozen, but I'm not sure I'd place revenge over bonus payouts as a higher priority than my retirement...

UAL has already proven that management will continue to take care of themselves even after a walk thru Ch.11.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

eolesen
Find Member's Posts Jun 16 2007, 04:50 PM Post #80
Veteran

Group: Registered Member
Posts: 2,804
Joined: 23-July 03
Member No.: 2,509

Why am I still interested in AA? Because the value of my pension lies in your hands. I'd prefer to see the full value of my pension, as opposed to the PBGC minimum.

Plus, if AA survives long enough, I just might come back as an agent or fleet service clerk after I retire from my current line of work. Assuming present day policy, I'd get my company seniority back after two years, and then I could retire with flight privileges. If I find a management job, I can simply retire a month later (or whenever I get tired of the airlines again), since management gets their seniority back immediately.

So, I have purely selfish reason for AA surviving....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Eolesen,

When were you telling the truth: when you said that your pension was subject to drastic reduction after you left AA, or when you said it did not matter?

I'll give you the out: after four years, you reached the minimum age 62 for full covered retirement and yet you continue posting your anti-union, anti-worker diatribe for what reason?

Oh yeah, you want to return to work for AA on the Ramp, with all your time...lol

 

[FurloughedByAPFA]

NYSE Real time Quote
Last Trade as of October 15, 2007
AMR profit report may show American Airlines lagged peers
Marketwatch - October 15, 2007 7:14 PM ET



Related Quotes
Symbol Last Chg
AMR Trade 24.26 -0.88
UAUA Trade 46.58 -1.24
Quotes delayed at least 15 minutes


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- AMR Corp.'s third-quarter earnings are likely to show the American Airlines owner benefited from capacity cutbacks and fare increases, but lagged its peers in the still-tough market for domestic revenue.

Analysts anticipate AMR (AMR) on Wednesday will report earnings of 73 cents a share for the three months ended in September. Profit at those levels would mark a big swing from earnings excluding charges of 45 cents a share a year-ago, supported by more demand and fewer seat miles made available for sale.

But the current earnings forecasts represent a significant scale back in expectations from a month ago, when analysts had anticipated the Ft. Worth, Texas carrier would make 98 cents a share.

Wall Street's outlook for the quarter soured after the world's largest carrier updated its third-quarter outlook in late September.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

(For better or worse), the following.........is "etched in stone"

1., The days of mutual agreement(s) via a handshake(which I STILL believe people long for), is lost FOREVER(in USA business)

2. , Corperate GREED is at EPIDEMIC proportion in the USA(and is showing "NO" signs of abateing anytime soon)

THEREFORE, the ONLY way to assure benefits/job security from a USA company, is by UNION BARGAINING-FORCE/THREAT !!!

(This obviously pertains to corperations that have NO desire to "close their doors"(aka---American Airlines, etc.)

Pensions.

Protected by the FEDS !! (Yes, Pilots DO stand to lose a lot of money in this system), so pensions are NOT the issue here.

Medical Benefits.

Soon to go the way of Canada....so(probably) Not an Issue either.

Wages/working conditions/sick time/vacations /job security/perks(flt. benefits) etc.....ALL obtained via collective bargaining

For those who might say...."I don't have anyone to bargain for me, therefore the company takes advantage of me".....(The Answer)...."Either ENSURE that you DO get someone(Union) to bargain for you,...........or........."Live with It" !!!!

It's very very simple.

It IS, as it ALWAYS has been in US labor relations(with Corperations)......"US...vs...THEM"

 

[WingNaPrayer]

It IS, as it ALWAYS has been in US labor relations(with Corperations)......"US...vs...THEM"

And the "Us's" outnumber the "Them's" You'd think a group of employees so maligned could come together for common self preservation but . . .

It is rare to see a company like AA where the employees are divided into groups, and one of the perks of being in top management is to sit back and watch the groups fight with each other. The company has built up such scathing animosity between the work groups that those groups, within themselves, are their own little "us vs. them" In short, between the groups, they all hate each other and as long as the company can keep that mutual hatred going, they know the labor force will never come together to defeat them, and that is exactly how they want it.

Arpey could put the union's balls in a vice quite easily if, next spring, he took the non-union work groups and gave them a sweet package of pay and benefit restoration. Then, just sit back and watch the unions destroy each other with years of "negotiating" while their members wonder if they had not been unionized, would they be enjoying the benefits the non-union work groups were given. I wonder how long it would be before a vote is taken to disband any one union or the other.

Arpey has a unique opportunity here. However, the one thing that can't happen is that union employees end up with better pay and benefits at the expense of the non-union employees. That is when all the union wrangling and negotiating becomes for naught.

 

[eolesen]

The agents's cuts were in the 5-7% range or so. Restoring them would be a drop in the bucket compared to what the snap backs would be anywhere else, so why set the precedent?

When were you telling the truth: when you said that your pension was subject to drastic reduction after you left AA, or when you said it did not matter?

There's a provision in pension plans which allows workers pensions to be unfrozen if they return to payroll within a certain timeframe. I'm now past that point. Had I gone back to work for AA earlier as either an agent, support staff, or management, my pension would have been unfrozen, provided the plan wasn't already terminated.

And yes, I guess you're right that a reduced payment would still suck, but it becomes less and less important to me than my 401K and other investments. I've started to view my AMR pension in the same light as Social Security. I'm not depending on either one to be paid out as promised...

 

[s80dude]

Anyone know if the payout can be designated to be put directly into the persons AA 401k account?

Back when we used to get profit sharing, we had a way to put whatever % we wanted into our 401K in order, so I am sure AA would offer tha opportunity again. We already have the option now of putting those little AIP payouts into the 401K.