Pros and Cons of 7 Day OH Coverage

[olderguyAMT]

Mgmt agenda at OH base: to destroy morale in order to make a case for outscourcing ??

Pros: It is said to look good on paper. Pushed by mgmt because they think it saves cash. Work is done on the weekend with level loading. UAL and AMR new contract proposals have made a case for 7 Day Coverage.



Cons: Takes more headcount and results in loss of team participation and communication. There is no true level loading with a shortage of headcount. Lack of weekend support takes its toll. Disgruntled workforce is huge obstacle.

 

[eolesen]

I don't see it as a way of decreasing costs as much as a way to improve aircraft and facility utilization.

Depending on the staffing level, AA may be viewing it as a way to improve throughput/output by anywhere from 15-30% without having to add additional infrastructure. Airplanes don't make money when they're chocked or on jacks...

Seven day coverage is what you make of it, and there may be enough people who find it appealing to make it work well for both sides.

I went to seven day coverage in my IT shop a few years back, and saw immediate benefits. Defects dropped (no more rushing on Friday to get things done before quitting time), service levels increased (no need to wait for someone on a weekend "drop-in"). That in turn decreased workplace stress, especially knowing that there would be fewer weekend call-outs.

Programmers were on salary and non-union, so admittedly different economics apply. But there was no shortage of people willing to have Fri-Sat or Sun-Mon as days off, either.

When I lived in NYC, having Sun-Mon was the best of both worlds for days off. One weekend day off to do things with people who had a regular workweek, and one day off to do doctors appointments, banking, etc. when they were open. Maybe things have changed, but in the early 90's, getting a Saturday doctor or dental appointment on Long Island was impossible.

In DFW, having Fri-Sat off was perfect. Was able to leave for Chickasaw on Thursday night to grab a good campsite, fish all day Friday without dodging Jetskis and speedboats, and then beat traffic by leaving first thing Sunday morning (and still make it to work) or late Saturday night. Would have also made it really easy to do all the kid stuff like soccer, etc.

I know there are a few who find anything other than bankers hours to be abhorrent, but I actually miss shift work and mid-week days off...

 

[Frank Szabo]

I don't see it as a way of decreasing costs as much as a way to improve aircraft and facility utilization.

... snip

Seven day coverage could be a good thing for everyone IF it were run correctly - now I ask you, what are that odds for that?

I would imagine, Mr. E, that your company is run by a higher quality of management than American and probably based their decision on business factors rather than wanting to put obstacles in place for the troops.

Salaried personnel at American don't exactly care for weekend work - if an engineer is needed, how long will it take to get him/her there, assuming a sufficient level of sobriety? Presently, there's hardly any use in calling one as it's a given the phone won't be answered.

24/7 requires the proper support boys and girls be on hand also - and about 30% more of them. I don't see American forcing their already poorly paid engineering staff to be there when they don't want to be as they'll simply go elsewhere for the same pay and no weekends. I don't see them forcing stores and other needed departments to be present to support the operation.

A bottom line - even though the company gets the 7 day coverage, costs will increase as the proper staff is not available when needed. This is being made a sticking point simply to see if it can be pushed through and for no other reason.

By the way - facility utilization is only a factor when a company is living by the standard hour - example, two of the machines in the shops that, in a normal manufacturing facility would have the highest charge rates, sit idle for 16 hrs. per day. One other sits idle for 8 hrs daily.

These people couldn't profitably operate a whorehouse, a lemonade stand, or a lawn mowing business.

 

[Buck]

I don't see it as a way of decreasing costs as much as a way to improve aircraft and facility utilization.

Depending on the staffing level, AA may be viewing it as a way to improve throughput/output by anywhere from 15-30% without having to add additional infrastructure. Airplanes don't make money when they're chocked or on jacks...

Ok staffing level. There are not enough mechanics to cover the amount of work. Engineering does not effectively support the mechanics. Stores is barely available. Boeing takes to long to respond to OH. Supervisors are working longer shifts. Managers having most of the weekends off, although some are seen on the weekends. Morale is at an all time low. A 22 day RETRO with corrosion ending up in the 40+ day check. "Level Loading", now thats funny. A 600k est. check costing 1.2 to 1.3 Million.

Seven day coverage is what you make of it, and there may be enough people who find it appealing to make it work well for both sides.

There are not enough people to work it. Placing one aircraft dock out of four on 7-day coverage, while allowing the other three to work 5/8's and OT on SAT/SUN. Whole crew attempting to bid off of the one dock.

I went to seven day coverage in my IT shop a few years back, and saw immediate benefits. Defects dropped (no more rushing on Friday to get things done before quitting time), service levels increased (no need to wait for someone on a weekend "drop-in"). That in turn decreased workplace stress, especially knowing that there would be fewer weekend call-outs.

"Defects" soaring, cost increasing and more paperwork than ever. Q/A schedules not matching that of the mechanics.

Programmers were on salary and non-union, so admittedly different economics apply. But there was no shortage of people willing to have Fri-Sat or Sun-Mon as days off, either.

There is a shortage of people at TULE and again those are trying to leave.

When I lived in NYC, having Sun-Mon was the best of both worlds for days off. One weekend day off to do things with people who had a regular workweek, and one day off to do doctors appointments, banking, etc. when they were open. Maybe things have changed, but in the early 90's, getting a Saturday doctor or dental appointment on Long Island was impossible.

In DFW, having Fri-Sat off was perfect. Was able to leave for Chickasaw on Thursday night to grab a good campsite, fish all day Friday without dodging Jetskis and speedboats, and then beat traffic by leaving first thing Sunday morning (and still make it to work) or late Saturday night. Would have also made it really easy to do all the kid stuff like soccer, etc.

I know there are a few who find anything other than bankers hours to be abhorrent, but I actually miss shift work and mid-week days off...

 

[olderguyAMT]

Evidence of mismanagement is plainly visible, a no-brainer? Is Low Headcount subsidizing the overtime from Stores and support? If it just looks good on a bar-chart or a powerpoint presentation, is mgmt in denial mode on the subject? Are the factors mentioned by Buck included in those bar-charts? Can't slow it down or stop it once the decision is made; just like the Titanic could not avoid that iceberg! Stubborn people making stupid decisions. Go figure!

 

[mike7863]

i work at afw and i have no problem with 7 day coverage. but if we have to go to 7 day coverage we better be able to day trade like the line is able to do.

 

[olderguyAMT]

There is no democracy in action. The Co. has plotted a course, and is sticking to the plan, albeit, it seems that they lacked a marketing study. The train is speeding down the tracks and can't stop quickly. Surely all factors were not considered, but why don't they see the obvious? ...and why so long to modify the original plan? Oh now a new strategy to offer Fri-Sat or Sun-Mon as weekends, thus keeping the level loading in place. Will this trick work? Will the worker-bees be happy soon? Can the hive produce record breaking amounts of honey if bees are sick? How will cure the virus in the hive? Have they forgotten how bees communicate with each other? LIKE EXPERTS!

 

[paul1]

There is no democracy in action. The Co. has plotted a course, and is sticking to the plan, albeit, it seems that they lacked a marketing study. The train is speeding down the tracks and can't stop quickly. Surely all factors were not considered, but why don't they see the obvious? ...and why so long to modify the original plan? Oh now a new strategy to offer Fri-Sat or Sun-Mon as weekends, thus keeping the level loading in place. Will this trick work? Will the worker-bees be happy soon? Can the hive produce record breaking amounts of honey if bees are sick? How will cure the virus in the hive? Have they forgotten how bees communicate with each other? LIKE EXPERTS!

I'm all for seven day coveraqe. If AA cann't how figure out to do it correctly, let it fall on them. Its not like you are all going to be on weekends only.

I think eolesen made some good points on having the different days off.

 

[Buck]

I'm all for seven day coverage. If AA can't how figure out to do it correctly, let it fall on them. Its not like you are all going to be on weekends only.

I think eolesen made some good points on having the different days off.

What the AMT's rebelled at was rotating days off through out the week. It is a new concept for TULE. Now that the rotation is with is FRI/SAT or SUN/MON, we shall see. There is still a couple of factors, support of the whole facility and the contract.

 

[olderguyAMT]

Consider this.....that the beancounters have it all figured out in their narrowminded viewpoint. Increased costs due to mismanagment of that 7 day coverage will show up in the quarterly maint. base budget statements to the CFO, who at some point may state ": It now makes sense and is cheaper to outscource some more maint.".
In the case of mismanagement the final result will be just to show increased costs. This may be pushing the co. contract proposal for more outsourcing( see Scope clause). I make no excuses for them, just pointing out how they could win by losing. Do they really think like that, Bob?
Thus local budgeting mistakes may be overlooked by senior execs. No accountability for those local mistakes in spite of millions spent on consulting fees.. See, the co. has a plan. and they are leading us around by our ears. Stalling in negotiations like that....

To remedy this, there are changes that have to be made; unless our leaders can now see the light. Is it Possible????

If the co. make some changes to run the place like SouthWest Airlines then that would be a start. 1. respect and honor the worker bees like SWA, and learn from them. Put it into practice. Is it Possible?

If the Union make some changes to accept accountability, they can get us a good contract by: 1. Make top union officials, like Don and Jimmy clones, accountable to the members. 2. stop spending money like drunken sailors. Change the rules , accept stricter spending guidelines by cutting out half of entertainment and promotions spending, taking the savings to hire a small army of labor lawyers to do our negotiating, so we can really lead them around by the ears. Is it Possible?

That would be a good start, IMO. Is it Possible?????

 

[Frank Szabo]

Consider this.....that the beancounters have it all figured out in their narrowminded viewpoint. Increased costs due to mismanagment of that 7 day coverage will show up in the quarterly maint. base budget statements to the CFO, who at some point may state ": It now makes sense and is cheaper to outscource some more maint.".
In the case of mismanagement the final result will be just to show increased costs. This may be pushing the co. contract proposal for more outsourcing( see Scope clause). I make no excuses for them, just pointing out how they could win by losing. Do they really think like that, Bob?
Thus local budgeting mistakes may be overlooked by senior execs. No accountability for those local mistakes in spite of millions spent on consulting fees.. See, the co. has a plan. and they are leading us around by our ears. Stalling in negotiations like that....

To remedy this, there are changes that have to be made; unless our leaders can now see the light. Is it Possible????

If the co. make some changes to run the place like SouthWest Airlines then that would be a start. 1. respect and honor the worker bees like SWA, and learn from them. Put it into practice. Is it Possible?

If the Union make some changes to accept accountability, they can get us a good contract by: 1. Make top union officials, like Don and Jimmy clones, accountable to the members. 2. stop spending money like drunken sailors. Change the rules , accept stricter spending guidelines by cutting out half of entertainment and promotions spending, taking the savings to hire a small army of labor lawyers to do our negotiating, so we can really lead them around by the ears. Is it Possible?

That would be a good start, IMO. Is it Possible?????

I love your logic - it does seem reasonable. Getting the International accountable to the membership, however, has been attempted before at a few of the conventions, usually getting shot down in laughter from the stage.

I would be honored, though, if you'd share some of what you're smoking - it's gotta be good.

 

[Duke787]

Some guys in OH are making a big deal about nothing, having days off in the week is actually nice most of the time, and if you guys cover each other for having weekends off, it works great. Don't be the guy who always wants a weekend off, but won't work a weekend, they will be shunned.

 

[Buck]

Some guys in OH are making a big deal about nothing, having days off in the week is actually nice most of the time, and if you guys cover each other for having weekends off, it works great. Don't be the guy who always wants a weekend off, but won't work a weekend, they will be shunned.

If it is no big deal, then why has the RETRO on 1D in TULE, become so expensive. Bid at around 600k, costing 1.2 - 13 million. Ok throw in the structure, AD's and 100% buyback on any AD or N/R. Poor moral generates more N/R's. That and the FAA looking very closely at the work. We have more audits on the docks than ever before. Then 7-day coverage thrown into an environment that has had 5/8's there whole career. I know the line has always worked 7-day coverage. I for one do not mind it, but I have SUN/MON off every week. Then to be told by management that their families do not matter. Then having the C/S Policy yanked, only to reinstated after it made everyone angry. Then from rotating days off to a FRI/SAT, SUN/MON off, which we start next shift change. Crying about being assigned not having SAT/SUN off and then we they rotate into it only to work OT, digs into the family issue. I am sure there are quite a few single guys who would work the weekends.

 

[TWU informer]

Why does the Line view 7 Day Coverage differnet that Overhaul?

The most glaring and obvious is the Line has had 7 day coverage since there were dirt runways.

But there is a more important and often over looked reason that most at the overhaul base will understand completely...

SENIORITY

It is only at the overhaul base that the low seniority employee is given preference over the higher senior employee in the TWU claim of "fairness".

What could possibly be more fair than use of UNION SENIORITY?

The Line BIDS days off and BIDS shifts using the UNION SENIORITY system. Overhaul has a culture that this would be "unfair". There is nothing more fair than seniority rule, and there is nothing more to strenghten your union than use of UNION SENIORITY. For years I have watched higher seniority employees roatated unwillingly to afternoon shift and midnight shift duty, while less senior employees take their places on the desired day shift job.

If the TWU would stop this practice and resort to a BID-BID sytstem for shifts and days off, this whole 7 day coverage would be less of an issue. Just look at current Dock 1D for an example. AMT's with 20+ years were forced without BID to dock 1D and onto 7 day coverage, while AMT's with less than half of that time in seniority were assigned to Engine Overhaul with weekends off and overtime out the ass. Does that sound fair? NO

The simple solution for proper 7 day coverage additions to overhaul is to eliminate the current system of shift/days off rotation and go strictly to a seniority based BID-BID system. This has worked at the Line for years, and will also work at overhaul.

TWU needs to wake up to the SENIORITY RULE system in Tulsa and stop playing games. Line employees aften change their schedule to meet needs and usually there is an AMT willing to swap days with those in need. This fair and reasonable system not only leads to respect for each other and seniority, but there is also very little "RATTING OUT" on the line. The reason is simple, why RAT OUT or have conflict with someone you may need to change days off with next week. Most Tulsa Based TWU Officers are busy baby siiting the whiners on the Tulsa Base, and attempting to control finger pointing and RATS.

Try the UNION SENIORITY based BID-BID system and you might find out that workers need each other coincide with a reduction in the amount of baby siiting and whining is reduced considerably. Very simple yet over looked daily in Tulsa Oklahoma.

 

[Duke787]

Why does the Line view 7 Day Coverage differnet that Overhaul?

The most glaring and obvious is the Line has had 7 day coverage since there were dirt runways.

But there is a more important and often over looked reason that most at the overhaul base will understand completely...

SENIORITY

It is only at the overhaul base that the low seniority employee is given preference over the higher senior employee in the TWU claim of "fairness".

What could possibly be more fair than use of UNION SENIORITY?

The Line BIDS days off and BIDS shifts using the UNION SENIORITY system. Overhaul has a culture that this would be "unfair". There is nothing more fair than seniority rule, and there is nothing more to strenghten your union than use of UNION SENIORITY. For years I have watched higher seniority employees roatated unwillingly to afternoon shift and midnight shift duty, while less senior employees take their places on the desired day shift job.

If the TWU would stop this practice and resort to a BID-BID sytstem for shifts and days off, this whole 7 day coverage would be less of an issue. Just look at current Dock 1D for an example. AMT's with 20+ years were forced without BID to dock 1D and onto 7 day coverage, while AMT's with less than half of that time in seniority were assigned to Engine Overhaul with weekends off and overtime out the ass. Does that sound fair? NO

The simple solution for proper 7 day coverage additions to overhaul is to eliminate the current system of shift/days off rotation and go strictly to a seniority based BID-BID system. This has worked at the Line for years, and will also work at overhaul.

TWU needs to wake up to the SENIORITY RULE system in Tulsa and stop playing games. Line employees aften change their schedule to meet needs and usually there is an AMT willing to swap days with those in need. This fair and reasonable system not only leads to respect for each other and seniority, but there is also very little "RATTING OUT" on the line. The reason is simple, why RAT OUT or have conflict with someone you may need to change days off with next week. Most Tulsa Based TWU Officers are busy baby siiting the whiners on the Tulsa Base, and attempting to control finger pointing and RATS.

Try the UNION SENIORITY based BID-BID system and you might find out that workers need each other coincide with a reduction in the amount of baby siiting and whining is reduced considerably. Very simple yet over looked daily in Tulsa Oklahoma.

At ORD we bid for shift, our days rotate every 4 weeks, you go from mon/tues off to tues/wed off wed/thurs...etc....Avionics does it mon/tues, to thurs/fri, to sat/sun......which is nice for avionics because every 3 months they get a 4 day weekend, where line mechs get two 3 day weekends every 6 months............

I believe in the contract it states the days off rotate by what the majority vote in, so if a amt makes a motion at a union meeting to do away with rotating shifts, then that motion gets voted in you are done with rotating shifts.........that is no a TWU thing so much as it is a local 514 thing, we don't have rotating shifts at ORD.