Michael B
Member
No comment? I thought you wanted to play?
Question?
- Thread starter MCI transplant
- Start date
No comment? I thought you wanted to play?
Why did he take a job with Delta? Sounds like he would have been better off if he starting over at another company. By the way, how long did he work part time for?
LGA Fleet Service
Veteran
B)-->QUOTE(Michael B @ Nov 25 2006, 03:41 PM) [post="432843"][/post]
No comment? I thought you wanted to play?
[/quote]
Tail chasing isn't going to change anyones mind on the subject.You have your view of the situation and I have mine.
DLgirl, he didn't take P/T in ATL ,after 35 years in NYC he wasn't about to uproot everyone and move for P/T.
As for 'Starting over at another company' he had to do just that, and let me tell you the job market out there for those over the age of 55 is grim.
No comment? I thought you wanted to play?
[/quote]
Tail chasing isn't going to change anyones mind on the subject.You have your view of the situation and I have mine.
DLgirl, he didn't take P/T in ATL ,after 35 years in NYC he wasn't about to uproot everyone and move for P/T.
As for 'Starting over at another company' he had to do just that, and let me tell you the job market out there for those over the age of 55 is grim.
MMB
Senior
I didn't state a view, just historical facts.
I would like to hear your take on how Delta was the ogre.
Yes, most were blended in with the Delta people by seniority.
The pilots were different though.
The ratio of PA pilots to DL pilots was 1 to 5. The unions agreed to merge the PA pilots in by seniority but putting them one in every five.
In otherwords
DL
DL
DL
DL
DL
PA
DL
DL
DL
DL
DL
PA etc
Michael B
Member
Short answer: Yes.
I'm curious why the fixation by the AW/US people on the Pan Am people hired by Delta. Looking back through just this thread I see:
..........
----If this merger goes through, how will the seniorities be merged? ----
..........
Look around the threads brother, there are already some US people chanting Staple! Staple!
..........
I guess the logic is stapling a union person is unacceptable, but a non-union person should have known better and organized, so it is their own fault they got stapled.
..........
What did non-union Delta do with the Pan Am employees in regards to seniority?
..........
It appears to me like AW/US people are trying very hard to find some kind of justification to demand that if there is a merging of the companies, that DL people are stapled at the bottom of any seniority list.
Longer answer:
History -
* 1985, Pan Am sold their entire Pacific route network to United Airlines.
* October 1990, Pan Am sold its London Heathrow routes to United Airlines.
* January 1991 Pan Am filed bankruptcy and put their remaining European routes and the Pan Am Worldport at JFK Airport up for sale.
Delta bought those routes and some equipment to operate them with. As Pan Am was downsizing, and Delta needed to hire additional personnel to operate the newly acquired routes and equipment, Delta notified Pan Am that any Pan Am personnel who applied would be given top consideration in the hiring process.
For the most part, people hired from Pan Am were employed in the same position as they last held at Pan Am. After all the new positions were filled, Delta still had a large number of Pan Am applicants who hadn't been placed, and Delta did what it could to accommodate as many of those people as possible; offering any positions that were open in other capacities throughout the system. I wouldn't say this last group has cause to be mad at Delta, but they come closer than anyone else. I know that if I had, … 10 years as a Pan Am load planner …, and I saw my buddies get positions at Delta doing the same job they did at Pan Am, AND I was only offered a job tossing bags half way across the country; I wouldn't be any too happy.
All Pan Am people immediately got full credit for their prior time for pay and benefits. Bidding seniority varied somewhat. By agreement, pilots were dovetailed. For most of the rest, their Pan Am longevity was phased in over 3 years.
Eg:
If you had 18 years with Pan Am, you came in to Delta with pay and benefits like you worked for Delta for those 18 years, but for bidding you only had 1/3 or 6 years credit. When you bid the next year you would have 13 years credit, the next 1/3 from your Pan Am time and your year at Delta. The third year your full 20 years would count, 18 from Pan Am and 2 from Delta.
Not too bad for a bunch hired off the street. Can you offer a company that has done more for new-hires?
In my area, Pan Am'ers got their full seniority the first year.
I believe incoming F/As had some other bidding restrictions, but they were by no means stapled. As a non-F/A Delta employee, if I were to transfer into the Delta F/A program, I would be stapled at the bottom.
I know of no one else hired at Delta who was given credit for any time anywhere else. I knew a retired Navy Chief Petty Officer with 23 years service who hired on at Delta and went by Delta hire date for everything Delta.
Besides the Pan Am fixation, AW/US people seem totally uninterested with Delta's two mergers: Chicago and Southern Air Lines and Western Airlines, and one acquisition: Northeast Airlines. I find this curious too.
B)-->QUOTE(Michael B @ Nov 28 2006, 01:16 PM) [post="433617"][/post]
I'm curious why the fixation by the AW/US people on the Pan Am people hired by Delta. Besides the Pan Am fixation, AW/US people seem totally uninterested with Delta's two mergers: Chicago and Southern Air Lines and Western Airlines, and one acquisition: Northeast Airlines. I find this curious too.
[/quote]
Because it was your last and most recent
I'm curious why the fixation by the AW/US people on the Pan Am people hired by Delta. Besides the Pan Am fixation, AW/US people seem totally uninterested with Delta's two mergers: Chicago and Southern Air Lines and Western Airlines, and one acquisition: Northeast Airlines. I find this curious too.
[/quote]
Because it was your last and most recent
Michael B
Member
Fair enough.
So how does Delta measure up against, say:
- United's treatment of Pan Am people over the six years they picked off Pam Am assets?
- United's or American's treatment of Pan Am people when they divided up the last of Pan Am's assets?
- American's treatment of TWA people?
- American's recent dealings with Southwest?
- US treatment of Trump Shuttle people?
- AW's treatment of US people? Is DP following your IAM leadership's advice to “conclude its negotiations with the IAM over the integration of America West employees before embarking on another merger attemptâ€, or is he ignoring you?
- AW's treatment of their own when they closed their Ohio hub?
- How are the AW Teamsters and US IAM leaders getting along at their negotiating table? Are they playing nice together? Is DP doing anything to ease the tensions there?
BTW, CSA, Northeast, Western, and even the Pan Am people who applied to and were hired by Delta, all saw an increase in pay when they came across. How much of a raise should Delta people expect to get if this all goes through?
From what I have seen, the US Airways employees have a union mindset and would never, as a whole , vote for anything but "date of hire". They have class and dignity. They would NEVER vote for anything like what AA did to the TWA people.
Michael B
Member
De
I wish I could see a little of the class you see in LCC people, but I don't. From what I've read on these boards this past week, a child rapist has more class than the lot of them.
Hi Joan, and thanks for the laugh.
I wish I could see a little of the class you see in LCC people, but I don't. From what I've read on these boards this past week, a child rapist has more class than the lot of them.
B)-->QUOTE(Michael B @ Nov 29 2006, 04:51 PM) [post="433928"][/post]
De
Hi Joan, and thanks for the laugh.
I wish I could see a little of the class you see in LCC people, but I don't. From what I've read on these boards this past week, a child rapist has more class than the lot of them.
[/quote]
NOW! Is this the Delta I know?
De
Hi Joan, and thanks for the laugh.
I wish I could see a little of the class you see in LCC people, but I don't. From what I've read on these boards this past week, a child rapist has more class than the lot of them.
[/quote]
NOW! Is this the Delta I know?
B)-->QUOTE(Michael B @ Nov 28 2006, 05:30 PM) [post="433670"][/post]
So how does Delta measure up against, [/quote]
DATE OF HIRE like ever other merge US Airways has been involved in. NO staple NO blend NO ratio NO we saved DL
So how does Delta measure up against, [/quote]
DATE OF HIRE like ever other merge US Airways has been involved in. NO staple NO blend NO ratio NO we saved DL
B)-->QUOTE(Michael B @ Nov 28 2006, 02:16 PM) [post="433617"][/post]
Short answer: Yes.
I'm curious why the fixation by the AW/US people on the Pan Am people hired by Delta. Looking back through just this thread I see:
..........
----If this merger goes through, how will the seniorities be merged? ----
..........
Look around the threads brother, there are already some US people chanting Staple! Staple!
..........
I guess the logic is stapling a union person is unacceptable, but a non-union person should have known better and organized, so it is their own fault they got stapled.
..........
What did non-union Delta do with the Pan Am employees in regards to seniority?
..........
It appears to me like AW/US people are trying very hard to find some kind of justification to demand that if there is a merging of the companies, that DL people are stapled at the bottom of any seniority list.
Longer answer:
History -
* 1985, Pan Am sold their entire Pacific route network to United Airlines.
* October 1990, Pan Am sold its London Heathrow routes to United Airlines.
* January 1991 Pan Am filed bankruptcy and put their remaining European routes and the Pan Am Worldport at JFK Airport up for sale.
Delta bought those routes and some equipment to operate them with. As Pan Am was downsizing, and Delta needed to hire additional personnel to operate the newly acquired routes and equipment, Delta notified Pan Am that any Pan Am personnel who applied would be given top consideration in the hiring process.
For the most part, people hired from Pan Am were employed in the same position as they last held at Pan Am. After all the new positions were filled, Delta still had a large number of Pan Am applicants who hadn't been placed, and Delta did what it could to accommodate as many of those people as possible; offering any positions that were open in other capacities throughout the system. I wouldn't say this last group has cause to be mad at Delta, but they come closer than anyone else. I know that if I had, … 10 years as a Pan Am load planner …, and I saw my buddies get positions at Delta doing the same job they did at Pan Am, AND I was only offered a job tossing bags half way across the country; I wouldn't be any too happy.
All Pan Am people immediately got full credit for their prior time for pay and benefits. Bidding seniority varied somewhat. By agreement, pilots were dovetailed. For most of the rest, their Pan Am longevity was phased in over 3 years.
Eg:
If you had 18 years with Pan Am, you came in to Delta with pay and benefits like you worked for Delta for those 18 years, but for bidding you only had 1/3 or 6 years credit. When you bid the next year you would have 13 years credit, the next 1/3 from your Pan Am time and your year at Delta. The third year your full 20 years would count, 18 from Pan Am and 2 from Delta.
Not too bad for a bunch hired off the street. Can you offer a company that has done more for new-hires?
In my area, Pan Am'ers got their full seniority the first year.
I believe incoming F/As had some other bidding restrictions, but they were by no means stapled. As a non-F/A Delta employee, if I were to transfer into the Delta F/A program, I would be stapled at the bottom.
I know of no one else hired at Delta who was given credit for any time anywhere else. I knew a retired Navy Chief Petty Officer with 23 years service who hired on at Delta and went by Delta hire date for everything Delta.
Besides the Pan Am fixation, AW/US people seem totally uninterested with Delta's two mergers: Chicago and Southern Air Lines and Western Airlines, and one acquisition: Northeast Airlines. I find this curious too.
[/quote]
Short answer: Yes.
I'm curious why the fixation by the AW/US people on the Pan Am people hired by Delta. Looking back through just this thread I see:
..........
----If this merger goes through, how will the seniorities be merged? ----
..........
Look around the threads brother, there are already some US people chanting Staple! Staple!
..........
I guess the logic is stapling a union person is unacceptable, but a non-union person should have known better and organized, so it is their own fault they got stapled.
..........
What did non-union Delta do with the Pan Am employees in regards to seniority?
..........
It appears to me like AW/US people are trying very hard to find some kind of justification to demand that if there is a merging of the companies, that DL people are stapled at the bottom of any seniority list.
Longer answer:
History -
* 1985, Pan Am sold their entire Pacific route network to United Airlines.
* October 1990, Pan Am sold its London Heathrow routes to United Airlines.
* January 1991 Pan Am filed bankruptcy and put their remaining European routes and the Pan Am Worldport at JFK Airport up for sale.
Delta bought those routes and some equipment to operate them with. As Pan Am was downsizing, and Delta needed to hire additional personnel to operate the newly acquired routes and equipment, Delta notified Pan Am that any Pan Am personnel who applied would be given top consideration in the hiring process.
For the most part, people hired from Pan Am were employed in the same position as they last held at Pan Am. After all the new positions were filled, Delta still had a large number of Pan Am applicants who hadn't been placed, and Delta did what it could to accommodate as many of those people as possible; offering any positions that were open in other capacities throughout the system. I wouldn't say this last group has cause to be mad at Delta, but they come closer than anyone else. I know that if I had, … 10 years as a Pan Am load planner …, and I saw my buddies get positions at Delta doing the same job they did at Pan Am, AND I was only offered a job tossing bags half way across the country; I wouldn't be any too happy.
All Pan Am people immediately got full credit for their prior time for pay and benefits. Bidding seniority varied somewhat. By agreement, pilots were dovetailed. For most of the rest, their Pan Am longevity was phased in over 3 years.
Eg:
If you had 18 years with Pan Am, you came in to Delta with pay and benefits like you worked for Delta for those 18 years, but for bidding you only had 1/3 or 6 years credit. When you bid the next year you would have 13 years credit, the next 1/3 from your Pan Am time and your year at Delta. The third year your full 20 years would count, 18 from Pan Am and 2 from Delta.
Not too bad for a bunch hired off the street. Can you offer a company that has done more for new-hires?
In my area, Pan Am'ers got their full seniority the first year.
I believe incoming F/As had some other bidding restrictions, but they were by no means stapled. As a non-F/A Delta employee, if I were to transfer into the Delta F/A program, I would be stapled at the bottom.
I know of no one else hired at Delta who was given credit for any time anywhere else. I knew a retired Navy Chief Petty Officer with 23 years service who hired on at Delta and went by Delta hire date for everything Delta.
Besides the Pan Am fixation, AW/US people seem totally uninterested with Delta's two mergers: Chicago and Southern Air Lines and Western Airlines, and one acquisition: Northeast Airlines. I find this curious too.
[/quote]
