Scabs

[keeptheodds]

quote=Bob Owens,Aug 15 2005, 08:31 AM

What no reply Keep the odds?

Caught in a lie so you aviod the post?

Sorry Bob no lies here those numbers are numbers I got off of rosters at the different check points through the hotel and a little help from the bored little sweethart that was at the desk.

I like how he says, "1100 or so..." Just last week they were saying they had 1500 and then it was 1700. Do you really think NW is going to give out accurate information? Who knows, maybe it is accurate which means my percentages were off on the amount of meahanics who would walk once deployment orders were issued. Or maybe more guys grabbed a little to much t&a over there from the hotel staff and were fired. Maybe over a thousand were rolled over as direct employees and aren't considerd replacement workers anymore. I was offerd a full time position and turned it down. Everyone was orderd not to discuss what happend in their little individual interviews and so far no one is really talking. I do not have the access to the areas I did have. Verifying rumors around here is next to impossible, this place is locked down like Fort Knox. Alot of guys went to Las Angeles, Las Vegas and Seattle and a few other places I can't remember. None of these places were originally noted as destinations in our original contract. So a lot of changes has been made. Also there isn't the shear numbers of people here as there was in Arizona so it is more difficult to ask direct questions to people and remain discreet. D-day is closing in on us gentlemen Good luck to all.

 

[Bob Owens]

I could be wrong but ..........


Well at least you got that part right.

it seems to me that going on strike at this time would close the book on nwa mechanics. There would be no hope for any mechanic. If you live to fight again another day...........there is HOPE! HOPE for all laid off and hope of getting our airline back on its feet.

Not really, by not fighting back the company will eliminate their jobs.

An nwa mechanic rep. was speaking and telling the news that it will be another EASTERN. Ok, wow, that sure is hopeful. Saying that means that they are ready to go to work fixing cars. I wonder what an ex-EASTERN mech. would say about this kind of thinking? Would he say "I wish we had lived to fight again another day" or would he say, "Yep, I am glad I lost my job and am now fixing cars." ?


I work with many ex EAL mechs and not one of them has ever expressed second thoughts on the actions they took. Eal went out of business, they were picked up by other airlines and ended up making more than if they had agreed to Lorenzos demands.

This all may be moot because nwa may be waiting to fire all mechanics. I just think it is insane to wish for an EASTERN type downfall. Look at AA......I just sat on a jumpseat and they said that they do not like the pay but at least they can fight to get it back.


The pilots are a different story. First of all they make a lot more than any other machine operator out there and ay AA they alreadu got over 11% of their pay back. They got more back than we will the entire span of the contract.

"FULL PAY TO THE LAST DAY does not work! If they had told the co. to pound sand......they would not be here! Job-----No Job? What is best. Food--No Food. ? I have been very poor and dont want to go back there. Good luck to our Great NWA Mechanics. I hope the best for all!

Mechs wont go hungry. Recently heard from a coworker who quit (thats right quit, not laid off)and went to Con Ed. He said Con Ed loves hiring A&Ps. They like the fact that they can give them just about anything to fix. He has run into loads of ex-airline workers in his short time there. None want to go back. Better working conditions, , weekends off, holidays off, normal hours if they do work odd hours they get at least a 10% differential. Within two years his hourly pay will be higher than his topped out airline pay.

 

[Bob Owens]

quote=Bob Owens,Aug 15 2005, 08:31 AM

What no reply Keep the odds?

Caught in a lie so you aviod the post?

Sorry Bob no lies here those numbers are numbers I got off of rosters at the different check points through the hotel and a little help from the bored little sweethart that was at the desk.

I like how he says, "1100 or so..." Just last week they were saying they had 1500 and then it was 1700. Do you really think NW is going to give out accurate information? Who knows, maybe it is accurate which means my percentages were off on the amount of meahanics who would walk once deployment orders were issued. Or maybe more guys grabbed a little to much t&a over there from the hotel staff and were fired. Maybe over a thousand were rolled over as direct employees and aren't considerd replacement workers anymore. I was offerd a full time position and turned it down. Everyone was orderd not to discuss what happend in their little individual interviews and so far no one is really talking. I do not have the access to the areas I did have. Verifying rumors around here is next to impossible, this place is locked down like Fort Knox. Alot of guys went to Las Angeles, Las Vegas and Seattle and a few other places I can't remember. None of these places were originally noted as destinations in our original contract. So a lot of changes has been made. Also there isn't the shear numbers of people here as there was in Arizona so it is more difficult to ask direct questions to people and remain discreet. D-day is closing in on us gentlemen Good luck to all.

[post="288598"][/post]​

Well your excuse doesnt make sense because if anything the company would claim that it has more, not less, than it actually does.

 

[keeptheodds]

quote=Bob Owens,Aug 15 2005, 10:33 PM

Well your excuse doesnt make sense because if anything the company would claim that it has more, not less, than it actually does.


Bob, I think the problem here is that yuu think that Northwest doesn't want a strike and if this is the case you have got this whole thing all screwed up. NW wants as many mechanics as possible to strike particularly the older ones, people with probably 15+ years in. They are sure the younger ones will strike because they are to stupid to know any better.

Can anyone tell me where"pack sand" comes from because I don't get it.

 

[FWAAA]

Can anyone tell me where"pack sand" comes from because I don't get it.

[post="288605"][/post]​

Dunno. I've told people to go "pound sand" but I've never heard of "pack sand." Maybe it's a regional thing. While waiting in a cue, some people say I'm in line. Others say I'm on line.

 

[keeptheodds]

quote=PineyBob,Aug 15 2005, 11:05 PM

So tell us KTO, Which Side are You on?

Are you a "Thug" or a man? Tell Us?


By the posted definiton I guess I'm a "THUG". I Don't see it that way but I guess it depends on what side of the fence your on. I'm not here for your job I'm here for your union which you people seem to adore so much. You talk of NW management, which I'm sure is as horrible as you say, but I despise unions more than I despise screwed up management.Screwed up managment is everywhere you go. I assure you that the union is screwing you people as much a NW is. I see unions and members as misguided muslims.Brain washed and ready to die for a cause they know nothing about. This strike is about two bullies that crossed paths and neither one wants to back down. You people and I are caught up in the cross fire. It is as simple as that if you really think your union or company cares about you you are a lost cause. I'm simply taking advantage of a bad situation that is going to happen with or without me and with or without you.

 

[Hackman]

quote=Bob Owens,Aug 15 2005, 10:33 PM

Well your excuse doesnt make sense because if anything the company would claim that it has more, not less, than it actually does.
Bob, I think the problem here is that yuu think that Northwest doesn't want a strike and if this is the case you have got this whole thing all screwed up. NW wants as many mechanics as possible to strike particularly the older ones, people with probably 15+ years in. They are sure the youngers ones will strike because they are to stupid to know any better.

Can anyone tell me where"pack sand" comes from because I don't get it.

[post="288605"][/post]​

No the problem here is you going to be a scab, and management is going to screw you like they have their own workers. Don't think so? Wait and see...if your there long enough that is lowlife. $32hr? Ha,Ha,Ha.......Free tools? Hee, Hee,..... A new career opportunity? Hoo-wee!..... is all that in your "contract"?

BTW clueless, there isn't many young guns left working at NWA, but I can tell were a quite a few of them will be if management keeps their draconian demands this week....waiting for you.

One more thing, if you want to see stupid person you kook, look in the mirror.

"Pack Sand" is a northern term, which is short for "Pack it up your a$$". Which is what NWA is going to do to its scabs 😀

 

[keeptheodds]

Dunno.  I've told people to go "pound sand" but I've never heard of "pack sand."  Maybe it's a regional thing.    While waiting in a cue, some people say I'm in line.  Others say I'm on line.

[post="288610"][/post]​

I can see that. Can anyone else enlighten us?


quote=Hackman,Aug 15 2005, 11:47 PM
"Pack Sand" is a northern term, which is short for "Pack it up your a$$". Which is what NWA is going to do to its scabs

That is really colorful Hackman. I don't know that I like it though but I'll use it a few times and check out peoples reactions.

 

[keeptheodds]

quote=Hackman,Aug 15 2005, 11:47 PM
No the problem here is you going to be a scab, and management is going to screw you like they have their own workers. Don't think so? Wait and see...if your there long enough that is lowlife. $32hr? Ha,Ha,Ha.......Free tools? Hee, Hee,..... A new career opportunity? Hoo-wee!..... is all that in your "contract"?

BTW clueless, there isn't many young guns left working at NWA, but I can tell were a quite a few of them will be if management keeps their draconian demands this week....waiting for you.

One more thing, if you want to see stupid person you kook, look in the mirror.

"Pack Sand" is a northern term, which is short for "Pack it up your a$$". Which is what NWA is going to do to its scabs 😀

[post="288622"][/post]​

[/quote]
Now that is funny! Everybody needs a good laugh every now and then. When this is over we should have a beer.

 

[Hackman]

quote=Hackman,Aug 15 2005, 11:47 PM
No the problem here is you going to be a scab, and management is going to screw you like they have their own workers. Don't think so? Wait and see...if your there long enough that is lowlife. $32hr? Ha,Ha,Ha.......Free tools? Hee, Hee,..... A new career opportunity? Hoo-wee!..... is all that in your "contract"?

BTW clueless, there isn't many young guns left working at NWA, but I can tell were a quite a few of them will be if management keeps their draconian demands this week....waiting for you.

One more thing, if you want to see stupid person you kook, look in the mirror.

"Pack Sand" is a northern term, which is short for "Pack it up your a$$". Which is what NWA is going to do to its scabs 😀

[post="288622"][/post]​

Now that is funny! Everybody needs a good laugh every now and then. When this is over we should have a beer.

[post="288629"][/post]​

[/quote]
Sure lets have a beer if you survive this. Let me know what location you scab for NWA, and I'll buy!

 

[keeptheodds]

You know I began posting to this forum with the intentions of providing information to you from the inside of your foe so that you can make decisions on real up to date facts of anything you wanted to know and was obtainable by me. I promise you that your union and company are both telling you a bunch of crap, just like NW and the contract companies here tells us a bunch of crap. Even though I'm working on the other side of you I am willing to risk my job to provide you with any requested information. No, I do not like unions but nor do I like large companies either. That is why I work as little as possible for them. I've accepted two management positions and ended up quiting them both because I refuse to fall into the pit trap and play the game of company politics. Human Resources is the worst department in any company. If any one knows of a way to operate a company with out an HR department I would really like to know? People I assure you your union bosses are taking you to the cleaners. Your company might be taking you to the cleaners to but at least they are paying you on the way. At first I felt bad for you people but now that I see the brainwash induced hatred against the company and no holding amfa at all responsible for any of this I can see why NW wants to clean house and attempt to start over. Let me also add that it makes no difference if you strike or not NW is probably finished as an airline. They still might operate but it will be done either by government help or as a subsidiary of another company but your current management will be gone. And so will AMFA. This will set the stage for future union down falls. Airlines can operate without unions but without airlines there are no unions.

 

[eolesen]

The pilots are a different story. First of all they make a lot more than any other machine operator out there and ay AA they alreadu got over 11% of their pay back. They got more back than we will the entire span of the contract.
[/color]

[post="288600"][/post]​

Great soundbyte, but what you're leaving out some key facts, Bob.

It took about 18 months to fully implement all of the contract changes, and APA agreed to front-load the agreement with higher pay cuts during the time it took to implement those changes. That was known by the other unions from the day it went out for vote, and even though they "got more back" in your opinion, that doesn't change what they "gave back" or the fact that even if it was a smaller percentage figure, they still took a bigger out of pocket loss during those 18 months than any other union workgroup.

 

[Bob Owens]

Great soundbyte, but what you're leaving out some key facts, Bob.

It took about 18 months to fully implement all of the contract changes, and APA agreed to front-load the agreement with higher pay cuts during the time it took to implement those changes. That was known by the other unions from the day it went out for vote, and even though they "got more back" in your opinion, that doesn't change what they "gave back" or the fact that even if it was a smaller percentage figure, they still took a bigger out of pocket loss during those 18 months than any other union workgroup.

[post="288669"][/post]​

Without trying to turn this into an AA Board I will add this;

When Holidays, vacation etc are calculated in we took a 25% paycut just like the pilots, however over the term of the contract the pilots will have gotten 17% back, 10% the first year, 1.5% every year thereafter. I have a copy of their contract too. We will only get 7% back.

The fact that it took 18 months to implement the changes worked in the pilots behalf since it took longer for them to put all the givebacks in place, our 25% paycut was not only immediate but certain concessions were retroactive.

As part of their package the pilots union was also released from the multimillion dollar fine that the government imposed on them during the Reno dispute and the pilots got a union security clause added to their contract.

So the company actually negotiated with the pilots.

Some of the maintenance locals wanted to make non-economic language changes but they were told they "were not in a position to ask for anything". One of the things they wanted eliminated was the part time language for mechanics. AA doesnt have any so it would have cost the company nothing.

 

[keeptheodds]

Do I get to go home monday or what?

 

[Mach85ER]

Bob,

More than a few pilots like myself took up to a 49% paycut due to seat losses, CA to FO widebody to FO narrowbody, We never had holiday pay and I literally have to fly an additonal month each year due to vacation loss.
AA also has the worst seat progression in the industry after USair. About 2000 AA FO's can say they make less than nearly every other major/lcc pilot in the US who was hired at the same time or less. Can you honestly say that you make less than your peers at most US carriers? I don't know the TWU comparisons, I do know that AA FA's are industry leading or close to it, AA pilots aren't. So much for us rolling in the snapback money.
As for the fine, it was around $3500 a pilot. Forgiving it was an easy call when they popped each pilot for $50,000++ each year in concessions. The sad part is that some of our Mensa pilots said, "whew, at least the fine is gone" :blink:
Just another perspective

Sorry for the thread hijack, now back to NWA.

Good luck folks.