Some Good Pension News!

[AAmech]

This topic really reveals just how unbelivably SOUR some AA employees can be! You post some GOOD news and they still find something to complain about. How is it bad that our pension is able to pay out ALL its benifits AND grow by 200 mil?

Yes our pension is underfunded. But for years? Our pension was over 100% funded in 2000. Last I saw around the begining of 2004 it was underfunded by 24%(and thats with an age 60 elegilbity) and that number has probably shrunk as the market has moved up. Even if AA does go BK it would certainly have a difficult time trying to argue in court of the need to dump a Pension this well funded. I think UAL's is more than 50% underfunded and US's around 70% underfunded.

Whats so unrealistic about a 9% rate of return? With a straight face I'm constantly told my 401k should have an annual TEN % rate of return! Of course we all know thats almost impossible but shouldn't a professional money manager be able to get 9%?

 

[Bob Owens]

Sorry Bob, I just get the TWU ground emp pension.

[post="233213"][/post]​

Yes thats true because you dont have your five years in yet at the International for their pension. Hopefully you never will.

 

[Hopeful]

Just received my statement from the company concerning the TWU pension. Total assests were just under 2 Billion. The plan earned 431 million this year. 387 million were earnings from investments. 44 million from company contributions. The plan paid out a total of 147 million. The Pension plans assets INCREASED by 284 million ! Its nice to see something going in our favor for a change!

[post="230131"][/post]​

Keep drinking the KOOL AID!

The clock is ticking on the deleted by moderator on the part of the TWU will stop this from happening?

Maybe you're right, the TWU will have us all work for $15/ hr to perserve our pentions!

 

[Hopeful]

This topic really reveals just how unbelivably SOUR some AA employees can be! You post some GOOD news and they still find something to complain about. How is it bad that our pension is able to pay out ALL its benifits AND grow by 200 mil?

Yes our pension is underfunded. But for years? Our pension was over 100% funded in 2000. Last I saw around the begining of 2004 it was underfunded by 24%(and thats with an age 60 elegilbity) and that number has probably shrunk as the market has moved up. Even if AA does go BK it would certainly have a difficult time trying to argue in court of the need to dump a Pension this well funded. I think UAL's is more than 50% underfunded and US's around 70% underfunded.

Whats so unrealistic about a 9% rate of return? With a straight face I'm constantly told my 401k should have an annual TEN % rate of return! Of course we all know thats almost impossible but shouldn't a professional money manager be able to get 9%?

[post="233245"][/post]​

Don't you realize AMR is about $25 BILLION DOLLARS in debt?????????????? Do you know the profits that must be sustained for many many years to pay that off?

If you think for one minute that AA is so generous that they will watch all the other airlines, and other companies in general, eliminate their pensions and they will keep the traditional defined plans, you are truly a dreamer.

The question is how much more the TWU will OFFER the company to attempt to save our pensions!

 

[Thomas Paine]

Don't you realize AMR is about $25 BILLION DOLLARS in debt?????????????? Do you know the profits that must be sustained for many many years to pay that off?

If you think for one minute that AA is so generous that they will watch all the other airlines, and other companies in general, eliminate their pensions and they will keep the traditional defined plans, you are truly a dreamer.

The question is how much more the TWU will OFFER the company to attempt to save our pensions!

[post="233332"][/post]​

Well AA might keep the pension. The pension is based on your pay. So low pay means low pension. The question is 'is the "pension" worth it'?

Throughout the 90s AA was better off with the defined benifit plan, than if we had a good company matching plan. They hardly contributed anything, I believe at one point they were withdrawing excess funds that were created from the stock market boom.

If you havent figured it out by now, the TWU will give the company anything it wants as long as it means more dues payers for the TWU. So if the company really wanted the pension they would simply take it. If they decide not to take it its because of the laws regarding pensions. Sometimes executive pension plans are tied together with employee plans. However that wont stop them from using the pension as a smokescreen to get more concessions. It would go like this:

Company claims it cant fund pension.

TWU says no way can they take the Pension. "The TWU will fight"!!!!


Company claims that the pension payment will bring them below the $1 billion in cash reserves they need.

TWU says they must save the pension and the company, Tough decisions must be made. Mechanics must give up Line premium, Holiday pay and liscence pay. Even though the pension only costs the company around $3000 per employee per year we will have to give up at least $10,000 in concessions per employee to save it.

TWU claims to have saved the day. When the members catch on that they gave up too much they say "The members voted for it, dont blame us".

 

[desertfox]

[quote= Whats so unrealistic about a 9% rate of return? With a straight face I'm constantly told my 401k should have an annual TEN % rate of return! Of course we all know thats almost impossible but shouldn't a professional money manager be able to get 9%?


Almost impossible??....maybe with a corporate pension.....but if you have been following the EZtracker401K the year to date return in the aggressive portfolio is 17.14% and the 5 year annualized is 17.11. A pension is fine but like social security may or may not all be there when you need it. If you are not involved in the 401k or a Roth IRA you are kidding yourself.

 

[AAmech]

Don't you realize AMR is about $25 BILLION DOLLARS in debt?????????????? Do you know the profits that must be sustained for many many years to pay that off?

If you think for one minute that AA is so generous that they will watch all the other airlines, and other companies in general, eliminate their pensions and they will keep the traditional defined plans, you are truly a dreamer.

The question is how much more the TWU will OFFER the company to attempt to save our pensions!

[post="233332"][/post]​

It's not a given that a 401k would be cheaper for AA than its current Pension plans. Our friend "FormerModerAAtor" has researched and posted that WN is paying more than AA for its 401k and I am inclined to belive it.

 

[AAmech]

Well AA might keep the pension. The pension is based on your pay. So low pay means low pension. The question is 'is the "pension" worth it'?

Throughout the 90s AA was better off with the defined benifit plan, than if we had a good company matching plan. They hardly contributed anything, I believe at one point they were withdrawing excess funds that were created from the stock market boom.

[post="233456"][/post]​

We at AA are far better off with a Pension than a good "Matching Plan". A Matching plan like a 401k requires you to in effect CUT YOUR OWN PAY!! I currently save between 10 and 15 % annually in my 401k to supplement my Pension and SS. If I lose my Pension I would now have to put away 20-25% of my pay. Somehow I'm not too thrilled with that idea.

 

[AAmech]

[post="233477"][/post][/right]

Historically Corporate Pension plans rate of return on their investments has easily beaten the average 401k. The track record of 401K's in this country is a disater! The latest research shows that 91% of the 401K's in this country are UNDERFUNDED! And almost half of that 91% are in the completly HOPELESS catagory. They will never provide a retirment income no matter what the owner does! The culprit? Not how much the owner puts in, but the inability to generate a good rate of return. Its really rediculous that people really think your average Joe can somehow beat a professional money manager. They just can't!

401K's are a fine way to save some money to supplement your retirement income, But don't kid yourself into thinking your going to be able to actually live off one. Unless of course your planning on working deep into your 70's or eating Sams Club catfood.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

We at AA are far better off with a Pension than a good "Matching Plan". .............

Yes, we are, if AA can be trusted. But, that is not the whole truth.

Defined contribution funds are yours and can't be stolen. Defined payment plans are only as good as the solvency and integrity of the company and union.

With a defined contribution pension, you go along and accumulate yours and the company's contribution. With a defined payment plan, it is possible to work for decades and have your company default on the plan, leaving you with only what the PBGC pays, which could be nothing.

 

[desertfox]

!And almost half of that 91% are in the completly HOPELESS catagory. They will never provide a retirment income no matter what the owner does! The culprit? Not how much the owner puts in, but the inability to generate a good rate of return. Its really rediculous that people really think your average Joe can somehow beat a professional money manager. They just can't!

With some internet research, reading Smart Money, Kiplingers and/or using a service like eztracker401k, you can get the benefit of professional money managers. Picking successful long term mutual funds and being diversified to limit risk is not that difficult with alittle reading up on things. WHo do you think are running successful mutual funds.....professional money managers!

Claiming it's all HOPELESS is a sure way never to succeed.

 

[Oneflyer]

Its really rediculous that people really think your average Joe can somehow beat a professional money manager.

Actually, considering that less than half of professional money managers beat the S&P 500, its pretty easy for the average person to beat a PMM. Invest in an S&P index fund.

That being said it is criminal that people are allowed to run their own 401k without at least being able to speak with a financial advisor or receive some simple face to face financial training.

 

[The Drunken Duck]

Actually, considering that less than half of professional money managers beat the S&P 500, its pretty easy for the average person to beat a PMM. Invest in an S&P index fund.

[post="234240"][/post]​

If accurate, an indication that the Efficient Markets theory is correct, or that better money managers are able to extract the entire value of their over-performance in fees. Not sure about either. It will be interesting to see how hedge funds perform as an asset class in the long-run.

 

[Bob Owens]

Actually, considering that less than half of professional money managers beat the S&P 500, its pretty easy for the average person to beat a PMM. Invest in an S&P index fund.

That being said it is criminal that people are allowed to run their own 401k without at least being able to speak with a financial advisor or receive some simple face to face financial training.

[post="234240"][/post]​

You have to excuse AAmech, his wife is a "Professional Money Manager".

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Bush team seeks to bolster pension system

Treasury official says private system in serious trouble
By Robert Schroeder, MarketWatch


WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The Bush administration is seeking to bolster the nation's private pension system by improving funding incentives and requiring funding targets for company plans, a top Treasury Department official told a congressional panel Tuesday.

Ultimately, if plan defaults are too numerous, the insurance system will collapse and taxpayers may be called upon to fund the pension promises," Warshawsky warned.


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story...1964B34149FB%7D

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