Southwest Eyes Dfw

[rumorboy]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...west.56b78.html


However, Mr. Kelly said, the airline could take a fresh look at D/FW Airport because of the opportunity presented by Delta's decision to pull its hub.

"The airline landscape is changing, and it's something we're going to continue to monitor," Mr. Kelly said. "We're watching closely to see what service is added and by whom."

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...west.56b78.html
However, Mr. Kelly said, the airline could take a fresh look at D/FW Airport because of the opportunity presented by Delta's decision to pull its hub.

"The airline landscape is changing, and it's something we're going to continue to monitor," Mr. Kelly said. "We're watching closely to see what service is added and by whom."

[post="186453"][/post]​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That would lead me to believe that WN is concerned about what "strangers" might be noseing around DFW/DAL.

NH/BB's

 

[AAmech]

Thats my feeling on the matter. Why allow one of the new "darlings" to come in and set up a major operation on your turf? One of the so-called LCC's are going to be setting up shop in Deltas terminal so it might as well be WN who's headquartered there!

 

[jimntx]

First off, I do not think that WN will move to DFW. Why should they? When they have a taxpayer-provided private airport all to themselves (Don't get your knickers in a twist. I know others use DAL, but it's WN's airport for all practical purposes.) Also, it would render meaningless the large investment WN has made in HOU because of the Wright Amendment.

But thought occurred...
With all the effort the city of Dallas, et al, put forth to keep WN out of Love Field years ago when DFW opened, wouldn't it be funny if they start the lawsuit parade to keep WN at Love Field? <_<

 

[FWAAA]

While anything is possible, if WN decides to move any significant ops to DFW, the AA brass will break out the champagne and declare victory.

DL's landing fees at DFW were expected to be about $28 million over the next year. That's for 202 RJs and 54 mainline flights a day.

Plus about $3.5 million annually to rent 28 gates.

And DL's total fees to DFW were expected to increase from $25 million this year to about $35 million next year, thanks to increased fees to pay for the new international terminal. Anybody still seriously think that WN is dumb enough to obligate itself to those kind of expenses? I doubt they will.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/040908/delta_dfw_5.html

To put that huge number in perspective, Southwest pays less than 5% of that amount to DAL for its annual landing fees. The following document discusses the Dallas Dep't of Aviation's budget, and between DAL, the Heliport and Dallas Executive Airport, total landing fee revenue for this year is expected to be $1.6 million.

http://www.dallascityhall.com/dallas/eng/c...tion_budget.pdf

Like I said above, anything is possible. But WN taking n DFW's high costs? Doubtful.

As Gary Kelly said in the same article linked by the OP:

"It remains true that we don't want to serve this region from D/FW for a variety of reasons. We want to continue to serve the Dallas-Fort Worth region from Love Field, and nothing has changed there in terms of our desires."

I'm a big WN fan and cheerleader (as well as WN investor and customer) but mopping up the USAir meltdown is going to be priority #1 for the time being, not taking on AA at DFW.

IMO, it's as likely as WN announcing a large presence at MSP, ATL, MIA, JFK or DEN. Ain't gonna happen. At least not for a while.

 

[wwtraveler99]

Maybe LUV is just making some noise here trying to wake someone up. I think it could be a ploy to get someone to have the wright amendment altered again. If LUV were to split thier operation I think it would be a mistake. And how would you divide it up. You couldn't just operate the long haul out of DFW. What about those in say CRP who want to go to LAX or OAK or SEA or PVD. I think they would have to have some intra-Texas markets from DFW as well as thier DAL operations.

 

[sfb]

Any significant long-haul operations by Southwest from DFW most certainly would not be a "victory" for AA. While it is true that Southwest would end up paying part of the increase in landing fees resulting from Delta's pull-down of its hub, the majority of that cost would continue to be paid by AA. And the bigger picture is that AA would no longer have pricing power in long-haul markets from DFW. Granted, AirTran is already having an effect, but it would clearly become more pronounced if WN started flying to LAX, PHX, LAS, OAK, STL, MCI, BWI, PHL, MCO, TPA, MDW, etc. from DFW. The amount of revenue AA stands to lose on those routes is far larger than the share of DFW Airport costs which might be borne by Southwest.

If Delta is paying $3.5 million per year for 28 gates, I'd imagine that WN could pick up a half dozen or so gates for under a million a year. That'd be plenty for them to build a significant operation.

There's really no need for WN to offer much intra-Texas service from DFW; after all, if their current Texas cities are doing well without long-haul connections from DAL, it's not like they'd be worse off with WN doing long-hauls from DFW. CRP is a bad example since all the flights from there go to HOU anyway, which does have some long-haul service. Long hauls from DFW would likely be geared to appeal primarily to Metroplex-area O&D, with some limited connections. If you want short-haul, you fly to or from DAL -- sort of like what people do in NYC today.

But I do agree that US Airways' ongoing woes pose more tempting opportunities for Southwest than DFW. The East Coast is chock-full of short-haul routes which are LUV's specialty, and there are still plenty of high-fare markets to enter unless/until US Airways phases out its GougeFares.

 

[markkus757]

What you fail to realize is that WN would only go to places that they cannot out of Love. They would ruin the yields that AA has to LAX and some other places. The only way they go in there is if they think that they can do enough damage to AA directly, and kkep competition out of their backyard. Look at what they are going through at PHL. Tons of delays, and another expensive market for both the airline and the employees. That was only a tactical move. They were not looking at a small city with little service and high fares. They were looking at keeping other competition out of a geographically important destination. One can argue that BWI serves both Washington suburbs, Baltimore, and some of Philadephia's suburbs as well. what's the driving distance between DAL and DFW, about 35 minutes? The house I grew up in was almost equal distance between BWI and PHL. After going into PHL, the gloves are off. I believe that WN will do what it takes to remain competitive in all markets.

Markkus.

 

[funguy2]

Markkus:

I agree... PHL sets the stage to say that DFW is not an automatic no from LUV. LUV will need to be careful here... If LUV doesn't fly from DFW, AirTran, jetBlue, Virgin America, or someone else will.

 

[WorldTraveler]

WN will only do anything at DFW if they have to do so to keep AirTran, JetBlue, America West or anybody else out of DFW. My bet is they will have to do so at one time or another...you can't expect to keep making threats that you will show up at DFW, not do it, and expect another LCC to not jump on the opportunity.

Agree that if WN jumps on DFW, it's for the longhaul markets and to WN's focus cities which now number quite a few.

DL's landing fees with a huge RJ, small mainline operation are not at all representive of what WN would face with an operation probably comparable to DL's current mainline operation by movements.

 

[AAmech]

WN will only do anything at DFW if they have to do so to keep AirTran, JetBlue, America West or anybody else out of DFW. My bet is they will have to do so at one time or another...you can't expect to keep making threats that you will show up at DFW, not do it, and expect another LCC to not jump on the opportunity.

Agree that if WN jumps on DFW, it's for the longhaul markets and to WN's focus cities which now number quite a few.

[post="186651"][/post]​

There's no way WN can sit back and let Airtran, jetblue or anyother darling setup a large operation in their backyard! It would be a huge mistake! They have to jump in and grab some gates. I know WN wants to save its resorces for bigger fish like PHL but I think 4 gates would be plenty to connect DFW to their other hubs and also keep the other LCC's ambitions in check.

 

[wwtraveler99]

Mod-

Why was this thread moved? It's all about LUV moving to DFW. It's not about AA.

 

[ramper_in_las]

my two cents worth are "if it ain't broke don't fix it" WN's business formula has worked for 33 years and will continue to do so.

 

[coolflyingfool]

SWA can base the 20 737-800s they will buy from ATA out of DFW. Offer flights to IAH 5, HOU 5, LAX 3, SAN 3, LAS 3, PHX 4, OAK 3, MDW 5, BNA 2, MCO 3, TPA 3, BWI 5, SEA 2, STL 3, FLL 2, PHL 3. Maybe a few others. Just my thoughts......

 

[funguy2]

1. LUV buying ATA's 737-800 leases is just a rumor, not a done deal.
2. LUV has plenty of aircraft of its own for a DFW operation, including deliveries and potential reorganization.
3. DFW Airport will likely be offering great deals on gates, since they are building new facilities for AA + DAL's terminal... DFW is just about to go from slightly gate constrained to wide-open (remember AirTran's fight for 4 gates in Terminal B last year...)