CaptBud330
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How do you spell ####....Judge Young. What a moron!!!
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CaptBud330
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Yes you're correct about Judge Young passing sentence on the two pilots. I think that your statement about them flying is a bit premature. I can't convict a pilot that is sitting in a cockpit. As far as I understand it, no engines were started. Isn't it possible the pilots could have just as easily called to be pulled back to the gate?
If you were sitting behind the wheel of your parked car, would you be guilty of DUI? I don't think so. The judge presumed these guys were actually going to fly. I would love to have his crystal ball. If I had, I would have bought HP stock 2 weeks ago. I stand by my statement, the "Judge" (term used lightly) is a moron.
If you were sitting behind the wheel of your parked car, would you be guilty of DUI? I don't think so. The judge presumed these guys were actually going to fly. I would love to have his crystal ball. If I had, I would have bought HP stock 2 weeks ago. I stand by my statement, the "Judge" (term used lightly) is a moron.
airlinedivalish
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That's actually sad though. I have worked with Lloyd and he did his briefings well and was very professional to the flight attendants. It's a shame this happened to them.
I think the Judges' sentence was pretty harsh. I think revoking their pilots' license and getting fired was punishment enough.
But I think the Judge is using those pilots as an example or maybe he has something against pilots.
I think the Judges' sentence was pretty harsh. I think revoking their pilots' license and getting fired was punishment enough.
But I think the Judge is using those pilots as an example or maybe he has something against pilots.
Airline Mainliner
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Drunk U.S. pilots get up to 5 years in prison
Thu Jul 21, 2005 05:23 PM ET
MIAMI, July 21 (Reuters) - Two former America West pilots convicted of operating a packed passenger plane while drunk were sent to prison on Thursday by a Florida judge, who called their crime "outrageous and horrendous."
Miami-Dade Circuit Judge David Young sentenced Thomas Cloyd, 47, to five years behind bars -- the maximum term -- and Christopher Hughes, 44, to 2-1/2 years in prison for trying to fly from Miami International Airport on July 1, 2002, after a night of guzzling beer.
"What you did was absolutely wrong, outrageous and horrendous," Young said before passing down the sentences.
"...If there was an emergency, if something horrendous happened, you're talking about not only your lives but the lives of the passengers, the lives of the stewards, the lives of the people who would have been hit by an aircraft if the aircraft would have ... crashed into homes, into neighborhoods."
They were charged under Florida state law prohibiting operating an airplane while intoxicated.
The pilots' Airbus 319 aircraft was being towed to the runway for takeoff to Phoenix with 124 passengers and three flight attendants aboard when it was ordered back to the terminal. A security screener had reported that the pilots smelled of alcohol.
They had spent the evening before playing pool and drinking at Mr. Moe's Cantina in Miami's leafy Coconut Grove area. They left the bar around 5 a.m. after running up a tab for 14 jumbo glasses of beer -- the equivalent of nearly 22 pints (10.5 litres) -- and showed up late for the 10:30 a.m. flight.
The pilots' lawyers had argued unsuccessfully during trial that neither should be convicted because they were not really operating the plane at the time in question. They said it was under control of a tug truck driver towing it to the runway.
America West (AWA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) fired Cloyd and Hughes shortly after their arrest and the Federal Aviation Administration revoked their pilots' licenses. FAA rules bar pilots from consuming alcohol for eight hours before a flight.
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Who's the bigger moron? The judge or the pilots?
Thu Jul 21, 2005 05:23 PM ET
MIAMI, July 21 (Reuters) - Two former America West pilots convicted of operating a packed passenger plane while drunk were sent to prison on Thursday by a Florida judge, who called their crime "outrageous and horrendous."
Miami-Dade Circuit Judge David Young sentenced Thomas Cloyd, 47, to five years behind bars -- the maximum term -- and Christopher Hughes, 44, to 2-1/2 years in prison for trying to fly from Miami International Airport on July 1, 2002, after a night of guzzling beer.
"What you did was absolutely wrong, outrageous and horrendous," Young said before passing down the sentences.
"...If there was an emergency, if something horrendous happened, you're talking about not only your lives but the lives of the passengers, the lives of the stewards, the lives of the people who would have been hit by an aircraft if the aircraft would have ... crashed into homes, into neighborhoods."
They were charged under Florida state law prohibiting operating an airplane while intoxicated.
The pilots' Airbus 319 aircraft was being towed to the runway for takeoff to Phoenix with 124 passengers and three flight attendants aboard when it was ordered back to the terminal. A security screener had reported that the pilots smelled of alcohol.
They had spent the evening before playing pool and drinking at Mr. Moe's Cantina in Miami's leafy Coconut Grove area. They left the bar around 5 a.m. after running up a tab for 14 jumbo glasses of beer -- the equivalent of nearly 22 pints (10.5 litres) -- and showed up late for the 10:30 a.m. flight.
The pilots' lawyers had argued unsuccessfully during trial that neither should be convicted because they were not really operating the plane at the time in question. They said it was under control of a tug truck driver towing it to the runway.
America West (AWA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) fired Cloyd and Hughes shortly after their arrest and the Federal Aviation Administration revoked their pilots' licenses. FAA rules bar pilots from consuming alcohol for eight hours before a flight.
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Who's the bigger moron? The judge or the pilots?
CaptianBoomer
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Bud:
I think, that you CAN be arrested for sitting in your car if you are drunk.
I think you are overreacting calling the judge a moron. I, as I am sure most others have as well, pushed the partying environment on an overnight. Of course that was in my much younger days. However, if the airplane moves whether it is being pushed back or powered out for the purpose of flight it is according to the FAA "dispatched".
I am no laywer, but I would bet everything I have that these guys were going flying that day. IMO, they were operating the aircraft. I do agree that prison time is kinda pig piling on them, but I am sure the judge wants to send a message. Too bad they don't send a message with other crimes.
Boomer
I think, that you CAN be arrested for sitting in your car if you are drunk.
I think you are overreacting calling the judge a moron. I, as I am sure most others have as well, pushed the partying environment on an overnight. Of course that was in my much younger days. However, if the airplane moves whether it is being pushed back or powered out for the purpose of flight it is according to the FAA "dispatched".
I am no laywer, but I would bet everything I have that these guys were going flying that day. IMO, they were operating the aircraft. I do agree that prison time is kinda pig piling on them, but I am sure the judge wants to send a message. Too bad they don't send a message with other crimes.
Boomer
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Yes, you can be convicted of DWI even if you're in a parked car if it can be reasonably presumed that you are about to drive the car. For example, sitting in the driver's seat with keys in hand or in the ignition.
In this case, the plane had been pushed back from the gate. There is absolutely no indication that these pilots were going to do anything but taxi to the runway and commence this flight as soon as they were released from the tug.
Because the particulars in this case were so outrageous (so much alcohol consumed just a few hours before the flight) and there were so many lives in these pilots' hands, it's not surprising that the judge wanted to make an example of them. Based on what I've read about this case, I would have given them jail time, too; maybe not five years - but, IMHO, some jail time was definitely in order.
In this case, the plane had been pushed back from the gate. There is absolutely no indication that these pilots were going to do anything but taxi to the runway and commence this flight as soon as they were released from the tug.
Because the particulars in this case were so outrageous (so much alcohol consumed just a few hours before the flight) and there were so many lives in these pilots' hands, it's not surprising that the judge wanted to make an example of them. Based on what I've read about this case, I would have given them jail time, too; maybe not five years - but, IMHO, some jail time was definitely in order.
CaptBud330 said:
I guess it's possible, but I think any reasonable person would assume that those pilots fully intended to attempt to taxi, take-off, fly, and then land the aircraft, while being plastered, hung over, or possibly both. Those pilots had every opportunity not to get on the aircraft, call in sick, find replacements etc. and didn't.
I think the judge was very fair in his sentence. What sentence would you want for the driver of your kid's school bus if they showed up wasted?
L
luvn737s
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Why are employees permitted to drink on an overnight at all? They are being paid per diem and being provided a room at the company's expense. If they were on company property they wouldn't be allowed to drink, so why on a company-sponsored overnight?
Harry Callahan
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CaptBud330 said:
jimntx
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And, whether the a/c is under tow or not, as I understand it, once the door is closed the Pilot is in charge. And, he is guilty of operating the a/c under the influence even if the FO is going to fly the leg.
There is no more excuse for the pilots' behavior than there is for our little fiasco at AA with the dead body in the lav recently.
There is no more excuse for the pilots' behavior than there is for our little fiasco at AA with the dead body in the lav recently.
N924PS
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luvn737s said:
Try a 25 hour layover in PHX at 115 degrees. Not even one cold Dos Equis?
Layover time is time away from base, not duty time. What you do is your own business, until you cross very defined lines as the AWA pilots did. Kapish?
luv2fly
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Let's see. A very good friend of mine killed by a drunk driver. Sentence was one year in prison with 5 years probation.
Two pilots convicted of attempting to fly an aircraft while intoxicated setenced to 5 and 2.5 years respectively.
Yea, I'd say the judge had something to prove.
Two pilots convicted of attempting to fly an aircraft while intoxicated setenced to 5 and 2.5 years respectively.
Yea, I'd say the judge had something to prove.
jimntx
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luv2fly, to be fair one can not compare the two. First off, in what state was your friend killed? You can ask almost any member of MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) about the inconsistency of the DUI laws and their application from one state to the next.
For many years here in Texas, it wasn't even illegal to drink and drive. You couldn't drive while drunk (but that only applied if you got caught), but you could drive down the street beer in hand with no fear of being stopped.
Public opinion is changing. It is no longer considered "cute" or "they're just good ole boys having a good time" to drive drunk. Because of its experiences with tourists, Spring Breakers, and elderly drunks, Florida has been "out front" in cracking down on drunk driving.
For many years here in Texas, it wasn't even illegal to drink and drive. You couldn't drive while drunk (but that only applied if you got caught), but you could drive down the street beer in hand with no fear of being stopped.
Public opinion is changing. It is no longer considered "cute" or "they're just good ole boys having a good time" to drive drunk. Because of its experiences with tourists, Spring Breakers, and elderly drunks, Florida has been "out front" in cracking down on drunk driving.
eolesen
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CaptBud330 said:
Spare me. Why go thru the trouble of a pre-flight and pushing back if you're just going to request to be pulled back onto the gate? That's like a cheating husband saying he really didn't mean to have sex with someone other than his wife.
The minute the captain signed his flight release and allowed the door to be closed, he signaled his intent to operate the flight under the influence.
