Spelling

[CapnCockroach]

Drunk U.S. pilots get up to 5 years in prison
Thu Jul 21, 2005 05:23 PM ET
MIAMI, July 21 (Reuters) -

They had spent the evening before playing pool and drinking at Mr. Moe's Cantina in Miami's leafy Coconut Grove area. They left the bar around 5 a.m. after running up a tab for 14 jumbo glasses of beer -- the equivalent of nearly 22 pints (10.5 litres) -- and showed up late for the 10:30 a.m. flight.



*******************

Who's the bigger moron? The judge or the pilots?

[post="283168"][/post]​

Ten Liters? That's all? Couple of wussie's.

 

[Borescope]

They got what they deserved. To use "Buds" word, these guys are the real Morons.

 

[luvn737s]

Try a 25 hour layover in PHX at 115 degrees. Not even one cold Dos Equis?

Layover time is time away from base, not duty time. What you do is your own business, until you cross very defined lines as the AWA pilots did. Kapish?

[post="283691"][/post]​

What you do on vacation is your own business, but on a layover you still are on company business regardless of FAR verbage. I think the company has every right to dictate what can and can't be done on an overnight. Enforcing such rules is the problem. For those without a drinking problem, going 3 or 4 nights without a drink is no big deal.

 

[CaptBud330]

You know, after reading the replies, I can see this issue is very divisive. I fully undersatnd what these two pilots did was obviously poor judgement. I wonder though if the sentence was a statement to show the judicial power. I don't know if the Judge had a bad experience in the past with airline pilots but personally, I think the fact that they had their tickets pulled and were terminated by America West, the jail term is a bit of overkill.
The case of a DUI that killed a pedestrian and received one year in jail with 4 years probation can't compare to what the Judge gave these two guys.

 

[N924PS]

What you do on vacation is your own business, but on a layover you still are on company business regardless of FAR verbage. I think the company has every right to dictate what can and can't be done on an overnight. Enforcing such rules is the problem. For those without a drinking problem, going 3 or 4 nights without a drink is no big deal.

[post="284082"][/post]​

For your information and education, here is the FAR that pertains to this subject.
Most airlines, including America West, have more restrictive company policies in place.

I disagree with your position. It is my belief that as long as one obeys they rules, what you do when not ON DUTY is your own business. It is up to you to act responsibly or suffer the consequences.



Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 91—GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES
Subpart A—General


Browse Previous | Browse Next


§ 91.17 Alcohol or drugs.
(a) No person may act or attempt to act as a crewmember of a civil aircraft—

(1) Within 8 hours after the consumption of any alcoholic beverage;

(2) While under the influence of alcohol;

(3) While using any drug that affects the person's faculties in any way contrary to safety; or

(4) While having .04 percent by weight or more alcohol in the blood.

(B) Except in an emergency, no pilot of a civil aircraft may allow a person who appears to be intoxicated or who demonstrates by manner or physical indications that the individual is under the influence of drugs (except a medical patient under proper care) to be carried in that aircraft.

© A crewmember shall do the following:

(1) On request of a law enforcement officer, submit to a test to indicate the percentage by weight of alcohol in the blood, when—

(i) The law enforcement officer is authorized under State or local law to conduct the test or to have the test conducted; and

(ii) The law enforcement officer is requesting submission to the test to investigate a suspected violation of State or local law governing the same or substantially similar conduct prohibited by paragraph (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(4) of this section.

(2) Whenever the Administrator has a reasonable basis to believe that a person may have violated paragraph (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(4) of this section, that person shall, upon request by the Administrator, furnish the Administrator, or authorize any clinic, hospital, doctor, or other person to release to the Administrator, the results of each test taken within 4 hours after acting or attempting to act as a crewmember that indicates percentage by weight of alcohol in the blood.

(d) Whenever the Administrator has a reasonable basis to believe that a person may have violated paragraph (a)(3) of this section, that person shall, upon request by the Administrator, furnish the Administrator, or authorize any clinic, hospital, doctor, or other person to release to the Administrator, the results of each test taken within 4 hours after acting or attempting to act as a crewmember that indicates the presence of any drugs in the body.

(e) Any test information obtained by the Administrator under paragraph © or (d) of this section may be evaluated in determining a person's qualifications for any airman certificate or possible violations of this chapter and may be used as evidence in any legal proceeding under section 602, 609, or 901 of the Federal Aviation Act of 1958.

 

[CaptianBoomer]

Bud:

No question that the person who killed a pedestrian while drunk should recieve a tougher sentence than these two pilots. However, the judicial system is notoriously easy on people who kill while behind the wheel while impaired. The reason is not obvious, but IMO it is because any idiot can drive a car and the IQ required to drink, drive, and murder is anywhere from 0-250, but usually under 50.

However, there aren't that many dimwits flying large transport jets in this country. They should have known better.

I look at it like this. A police officer who knowingly breaks the law and is caught is much more likely to get a #### slapping by the judicial system than another person who is convicted of the same crime. It isn't right, but it is a fact. Presumably it is because the officer is trusted to uphold the law, not break it and therefore judges are much more "biased" toward harsher sentences.

Bud, you were in the business for years. When was the last time anyone felt sorry for an airline pilot?

Lastly, justice in this country is supposed to be blind. To those of you who still think it is???????

Boomer

 

[FA Mikey]

You know, after reading the replies, I can see this issue is very divisive. I fully undersatnd what these two pilots did was obviously poor judgement. I wonder though if the sentence was a statement to show the judicial power. I don't know if the Judge had a bad experience in the past with airline pilots but personally, I think the fact that they had their tickets pulled and were terminated by America West, the jail term is a bit of overkill.
The case of a DUI that killed a pedestrian and received one year in jail with 4 years probation can't compare to what the Judge gave these two guys.

[post="284125"][/post]​

Without being to specific I can say this judge is very, matter of fact. With defendants, prosecutors and defense attorneys. He runs a very tight and very fair court room.

Review his decisions on any number of cases and see that this in not only not out of line, or out of the ordinary. A sentence typical for his court room.

Too many pilots think that the verdict was too harsh. Thinking what the potential worst case scenario could have been I have to disagree. These pilots had every chance to make it right. They rolled the dice with their lives the lives of fellow crew, passengers and liability of a whole company.

As for the case you cite, real or not. It is an unfair sentence to someone who did use a car and killed someone. Maybe we need more strict judges.

 

[RikTheStik]

Spare me. Why go thru the trouble of a pre-flight and pushing back if you're just going to request to be pulled back onto the gate? That's like a cheating husband saying he really didn't mean to have sex with someone other than his wife.

The minute the captain signed his flight release and allowed the door to be closed, he signaled his intent to operate the flight under the influence.

[post="283872"][/post]​

What I wonder about is that the plea agreement that they had was 16 months and the judge refused to accept it forcing a trial. If the prosecutors representing the state thought that the penalty of 16 months was enough, who is the judge to impose a self assumed penalty?

-Stik-

 

[mrfish3726]

If you were sitting behind the wheel of your parked car, would you be guilty of DUI? I don't think so.

A lot of states can charge you with DUI if your behind the wheel with car keys in your possesion.

 

[Harry Callahan]

If you were sitting behind the wheel of your parked car, would you be guilty of DUI? I don't think so.

A lot of states can charge you with DUI if your behind the wheel with car keys in your possesion.

[post="284472"][/post]​

Read my answer on page 1