States rights with emissions

[Cosworth]

Because you sell what's in the warehouse TODAY, not next years projected whiz bang product.

If you do not look into the future to try and figure out what may happen, you are screwed. We had a gas crunch in the 70's. A few auto manufactures looked at the hand writing on the wall and realized that fuel will not always be cheap. They also looked at CA emissions and pollution and realized that it might be an issue as well. The big three should have been working with government and CA to look for more efficient ways of producing low emission vehicle instead of f fighting every single time someone tries to make cars safer or more efficient. The fought on nearly every safety issue such as seat belts, air bags, ABS, traction control, tire monitoring ... etc and now almost every car has them and the prices have not sky rocketed as was predicted or should I say threatened.

What works today may not work tomorrow. Stay ahead of the curve or get run off the road.

 

[delldude]

The reason we have to get rid of SUV's/Trucks is because they are a waste. People are not buying them as much and that is art of the reason we have to bail out the big three.

Where do you think they go when they don't sell here?Stick 'em on a ship and send them overseas.
All the traded in gas guzzlers go to those 'poor third world countries' where gas is produced and sells for pennies on the gallon.
The Suv thing is a tree hugging touchy feely US issue.

 

[Cosworth]

Where do you think they go when they don't sell here?Stick 'em on a ship and send them overseas.
All the traded in gas guzzlers go to those 'poor third world countries' where gas is produced and sells for pennies on the gallon.
The Suv thing is a tree hugging touchy feely US issue.

Never heard that one before. Either way though, if the US has to dump them on third world countries, they are going to take a loss. When the US looses their taste for SUV/Trucks then the US will stop dumping them on other nations as well.

Yes the SUV/Truck thing does seem to be a US fixation. he rest of the world does not seem to have this need to drive around in a vehicle that is hardly ever used for what it is designed for. Eventually, perhaps the US will learn to use what they need and not be so wasteful. What is wrong with being a tree huger? What is wrong with taking care of the environment? Whats wrong with making an effort to recycle, to not be wasteful? Why should someone drive a SUV if it is never full? Never used for towing? Four people fit fine in a mid sized car. Why not use that? Just because one can, does not mean one should. We all have to live on this planet. Not sure what gives us the the right to screw it up for everyone else. We are the largest energy consumer per capita on the planet bay far. That's not a title I am proud of.

 

[delldude]

Never heard that one before. Either way though, if the US has to dump them on third world countries, they are going to take a loss. When the US looses their taste for SUV/Trucks then the US will stop dumping them on other nations as well.

What do you think happens to all the late model gas guzzlers? Melt them down?They get sold to exporters at market trade in value.

Used

Yes the SUV/Truck thing does seem to be a US fixation. he rest of the world does not seem to have this need to drive around in a vehicle that is hardly ever used for what it is designed for. Eventually, perhaps the US will learn to use what they need and not be so wasteful. What is wrong with being a tree huger? What is wrong with taking care of the environment? Whats wrong with making an effort to recycle, to not be wasteful? Why should someone drive a SUV if it is never full? Never used for towing? Four people fit fine in a mid sized car. Why not use that? Just because one can, does not mean one should. We all have to live on this planet. Not sure what gives us the the right to screw it up for everyone else. We are the largest energy consumer per capita on the planet bay far. That's not a title I am proud of.

Freedom...............Freedom of Choice.......Freedom to be different from one and another.

 

[Cosworth]

All freedoms have limitations Dell. Besides, maybe the car manufactures can come up with technology to make SUV's/Trucks as efficient as cars.

 

[Cosworth]

Well the Neo-Facist Left complained when the Hybrid Caddy Escalade was introduced.

"Why don't they use the technology on more small cars that already get better gas mileage?"

Blah Bla Bla Bull POOP! It's all to foster some ultra leftist government control over our economy in what will soon fail.

The goal of the Obamacrats is to control EVERY aspect of our lives. What to drive, how to think, which doctor/hospital to choose. All because they think they're smarter then we are.

Part of Freedom and Liberty is the God Given right to be stupid, drink up your paycheck, drive a gas guzzling SUV, live in a trailer and shoot a few deer before going to church. It also includes the right to disassociate from those you don't like whether the press calls you a bigot and a racist or even perish the thought a homophobe.

Freedom & Liberty frightens liberals and encourages Libertarians to be all they can be. We scare the pants off the Obamacrats because we don't need, want or desire anything from them and if everyone was like us then how would they feed themselves?

No more than it frightens republicans who try and control people personal lives.

Your right to be stupid stops when it affects my right to enjoy my life. You want to drink, smoke and be merry... knock your self out. You driving a gas guzzler affects my right o breath and affects my right to access to a finite resource that I also need. When our rights conflict, we need to come to some sort of compromise.

You are free to disassociate form any segment of society that that you choose to and so far I have seen nothing to indicate that the right will change. And again, your rights stop when they start to infringe on the rights of others. There are plenty of bigots and homophobic idiots in this country and they are more than welcome to continue in their ignorance till the day they die. They do not have the right to co-opt the republican government to help them enforce their hatred

 

[delldude]

No more than it frightens republicans who try and control people personal lives.

I think you're way off the mark here,Cos.

If anybody wants to control peoples lives you best look in the Liberal direction.
I heard Obama wants to ration the kinds of cars each state will be 'allowed' to get.
CO2 caps are going to radically control peoples lives and pocket books.
Government intervention into healthcare will control peoples lives.
How about shutting down Limbaugh and Hannitty and others?
How about his pledge to tax coal use into oblivion?Eliminating coal fired power and jobs?
I can go on and on....

Control peoples personal lives....you better look to the left.

 

[Cosworth]

Sorry but I do not buy that hate the sin not the sinner crap. I find it to be judgmental and stupid. Now don't get me wrong. You are more tan welcome to believe as you see fit but when they right wing wing nuts try and isolate segments of society because of their bigotry I think they are idiots. I actually think far worse but the moderators would not approve of my description. I do not limit my description of co-opting to just conservative wing nuts. I have my pet peeves with liberals as well. I do not consider it co-opting when it involves getting equal rights to the rest of society. I do consider it co-opting to deprive people of their rights.

I guess that's another point where we differ. I believe certain things are necessities of life and all need equal access to them. Fuel is one of those items. The difference between one Prius and one Expedition is minute, the difference between thousands or tens of thousands is quite a bit more. I lived in LA for quite some time. There was a noticeable difference in qir quality when the CARB started acting.

Funny thing about the have's and have not's. Look at a ladder sometime, there always has to be a bottom rung otherwise the ladder does not work. The folks at the bottom of the ladder are entitled to a certain minimum standard of living as long as the are willing to work.

 

[southwind]

Afraid it's too late as Nobama ran and was voted in, based on "Entitlement" !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement
"Entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits because of rights, or by agreement through law. It also refers, in a more casual sense to someone's belief that one is deserving of some particular reward or benefit."

In Laymans terms : "Take from those who have earned it and give it to the people who did not" !

When does he start making my mortgage payment ?

 

[Cosworth]

Actually they are NOT entitled to a blessed thing. Show me where in the US Constitution or the 166 treaties that are now part of that document exactly where a standard of living is mandated?

This is where the "Right Wing Nut Jobs" and Christian Charity come into play. We are, like it or don't a country founded upon Judeo-Christian morals, values and ethics. As a result over the centuries those morals, values and ethics have caused us as a nation to create a social safety net funded through tax dollars. This is due to the Christian concepts like "Love your neighbor as yourself" and a host of other radical right wing nutty ideas.

What made the USA great was that all of us started as little babies and largely through our own efforts rose as far as we desired or were able. NOTHING held us back except ourselves. This was a country united in the belief that each of us could go as far as becoming President. However it was all on us as individuals.

So NO ONE is entitled to a blessed thing Cosworth. As to gay "Rights" I say let them marry and be miserable like the rest of us. I'm totally in favor of Gay Rights just as soon as those rights are extended to anyone who engages in any non traditional sex act. Remember oral sex is illegal in 26 states, so where are my "Rights"? Same for Cross Dressers, BDSM Life stylers, Swingers

See you don't really want "rights" you want preferential treatment. Why pray tell is it anyone's business what you do in a bedroom? I mean really who gives a fat rat's arse? NOT ME I'll tell you that.

No one is Entitled to anything except opportunity here in the USA

A few problems but I think I fixed them for you.

What made the USA great was that all white christian males started as little babies and largely through our own efforts rose as far as we desired or were able. NOTHING held white christian males back except ourselves. This was a country united in the belief that each of us white christian males could go as far as becoming President. However it was all on white christian males as individuals.

Funny how I am agnostic and I believe that all people are entitled as humans to a certain level of treatment. They deserve a roof over their head, food in their stomachs and decent medical care.

I think you are a bit confused in regards to gay marriage. Sex and marriage have nothing to do with each other. Married people are not required to have sex and marriage is not required to have sex. The only issue pertaining to same sex marriages is exactly that. Two people of the same gender getting married. The fact that oral sex, sodomy or what ever are still illegal in certain states is irrelevant to the same sex marriage issue. For that matter, neither do any of the other groups you mentioned becasue as long as their is a male/female involved they can get married. SO again, the only issue is same sex (as in gender not the act) marriages.


I believe there is a difference in legal entitlement and moral entitlement. In terms of legal entitlement, if as you say all people are entitled to opportunity, when will you be standing up for gay marriage as they do not have that equal opportunity. I believe that there are moral obligations that we have to our fellow humans. I believe that we are all entitled to a minimum standard of living.

I also believe that one of the purposes of government is to protect and provide certain things for the populace. A clean environment and clean air being some of those things. Freedoms all have a price. Perhaps SUV/trucks is one of them. I hope California leads the way.

 

[Cosworth]

When you stated "what made this country" great I interpreted that to mean the birth of this nation and its founding fathers who were all white and most were slave owners.

The fact that we currently have a minority as POTUS does show that we have come quite along way from the birth of our nation but it does not mean that racism is no longer an issue. You can cherry pick names out of history all you wish but to think it represents the norm is ignorant. To include the Tuskegee Airmen as an example of equal opportunity is laughable. There were as many hoping the program would fail.

A series of legislative moves by the United States Congress in 1941 forced the Army Air Corps to form an all-black combat unit, despite resistance from the War Department.

In an effort to eliminate the unit before it could begin, the War Department set up tough requirements, which they believed would make the positions impossible to fill; they would accept only those with a particular level of flight experience and/or higher education. Their policy backfired, however, when the Air Corps received numerous applications from men who qualified, despite these tough requirements.

It was an example of racism. The fact that the airmen were able to overcome the adversity before them is a testament to their ability not to the 'opportunity' set before them. The fact that it took decades for them to be recognized for their contribution to winning the war. In 2006 they were awarded the Congressional medal of honor. Only took 50 years. Not too bad for the US government I guess.

MLK was a pastor and was assassinated. How does that help prove your point? Religion is not as obvious as race but how many jews are in Congress? How many have been Pres or VP? How many have been CoS? How many women have been in those positions?

Not sure how we got here from State rights in regards to emissions but I for one hope that CARB clamps down on emissions and helps get us away from fossil fuel.

One thing I cannot understand is why they are going the route of EPA standards. Seems to me it would be far easier to address the emission issue via auto registration. Set up a registration plan where in there is a standard for horse power and weight. Perhaps 200 hp and 4000 pounds. Any vehicle which has over 200 hp and/or is over 4,000 pounds will be charged extra per hp or pound. So if someone wants to drive around in a 500 HP Corvette or a 7,000 pond pick up for sh!ts and grins they can do so but it will cost them more to do so. Some sort of exemption process for actual commercial vehicles could be implemented to allow the general contractor to drive his truck and prevent the soccer mom from taking advantage of a tax exemption. Seem like a far easier way than fighting the EPA depending on who is POTUS at the time.

 

[Cosworth]

When marriage has an environmental impact let me know. Until then the issue of who marries who is irrelevant and not a valid comparison. BTW, charging more for one type of marriage than another would be unconstitutional. 14th amendment guarantees equal protection. Marriage is marriage. They are all equal

Yes the airmen did earn the respect. Toward the end of the war,bomber wings would request the Red Tails by name. Not sure what or where the rights came from but it sure as hell was not the US government. They were set up to fail but overcame the barriers set before them. While they may not have felt entitled to something, they were entitled to equal treatment which they did not get. Truman did not desegregate the military till 1948.

When I said that MLK was only a only pastor I meant that he was not an elected official and had no official power as granted by the government. He had great influence over people but that is not the same.

SUV/Trucks have a larger impact on the environment and they cause more damage to the roads as opposed to their smaller light weight counterparts. I believe it is in our best self interest to move away from wasteful habits.

 

[Cosworth]

Apparently there are others who believe as I do. CA is acting on their concerns for the environment.

Do you also disagree with the purpose of the FDA, FAA as well as other agencies charged with protecting society?

The air is being polluted. Vehicles are a large part of it. It needs to be dealt with.

 

[Seatacus]

SUV/Trucks have a larger impact on the environment and they cause more damage to the roads as opposed to their smaller light weight counterparts. I believe it is in our best self interest to move away from wasteful habits.

Cos, maybe when you talk about moving away from wasteful habits you should expand your view beyond vehicles. You should also be thinking of people who have homes that are too big (Al Gore), TV's that are bigger than needed (huge energy sucking flat screens), etc. After all couldn't we all get by with a lot less?

 

[Cosworth]

Cos, maybe when you talk about moving away from wasteful habits you should expand your view beyond vehicles. You should also be thinking of people who have homes that are too big, TV's that are bigger than needed, etc.

I agree 100%. It all needs to be addressed. Gore has no excuse for living in a home that large unless it is energy neutral. None of this carbon off set BS.