The ' Tip of a (HUGE) UNION ICEBERG ' !

Yep and just like all unions grandfather in the old timers, screw the new hires! Nothing like union brethren, as long as your on the winning side!
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That happens to be true for most unions. When I was in the Teamsters some of us argued with the take away from new hires. Sure, you guys get this and keep what you got and get a pretty good raise...

...but we'll take this away from new hires. Next contract the record played the same tune.

Results...while the greedy union members focused on the "WHAT DO WE GET!" mentality, the company put words into the contract that gave them greater powers. Some of those powers were making the old timers do their work and increase productivity or terminate them. Time is on their side and you grow old. Yep, the union members have drawn a nice bulls-eye on their backs.

Now I am in a union that except for seniority all get paid the same and have the same benefits. The thing is that new hires start at a lower wage but progress and reach their full wage in 4 years.
 
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eolesen said:
Bears, it's not a question of "if" ships will bypass the west coast, but a matter of "when" and "how often"...

There's even talk of some domestic shippers looking to use the new ships to run containers CHS-OAK in order to avoid the railroad backlogs, which I found odd until someone else involved with rail logistics explained it.

Cost-wise, it's a huge savings. Time-wise, as it was pointed out to me, does it really matter if goods being stockpiled for the Christmas rush arrive in (hypothetically only) four days on the BNSF or fourteen by ship?

For the right discount in shipping cost, the cost to the manufacturer to send them out the door ten days earlier is negligible.

For now, BNSF and UP have a pretty good lock on the Asian shipping as do the west coast ports. Once the canal redeux is complete, all that changes. Containers won't have to go ship-UP-CSX-truck-dock or ship-BNSF-NS-truck-dock to get to their final destination. They can go ship-truck-dock.

Throw in the cost of oil dropping below the breakeven for shale and tar sand production, and that rosy outlook for railroads might not be what it was three years ago. Which is probably a good thing -- they're facing some of the same retirement bubbles that airline pilots face, albeit not a hard date because of age, and its much easier to hire a conductor or locomotive engineer with zero hours.
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Eric,
You'll get a definite agreement from me, that there will be a ' Nip here, a Tuck there ' , thats a given, but NO WHERE to the extent that ...that will play out by the way your 'source has informed you.
 
Those F'n  bean counters can make ANYTHING look good on paper,................and do you  NOT think the boys in the ILA aren't capable of   'ACTING UP ' despite all those  GOP voting  Longshoremen in houston/galveston/new orleans/Jacksonville and CHS  ?
 
If anything, the PMA (pacific maritime assoc.) could inadvertantly wind up being the ILWU's biggest ally by Promoting the very close (to asia) west coast docks.
 
I didn't think i needed to remind  YOU,.............that as this 'thing' goes, it's NOT the TWU that we're dealing with here  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
 
Eric,
You'll get a definite agreement from me, that there will be a ' Nip here, a Tuck there ' , thats a given, but NO WHERE to the extent that ...that will play out by the way your 'source has informed you.
 
Those F'n  bean counters can make ANYTHING look good on paper,................and do you  NOT think the boys in the ILA aren't capable of   'ACTING UP ' despite all those  GOP voting  Longshoremen in houston/galveston/new orleans/Jacksonville and CHS  ?
 
If anything, the PMA (pacific maritime assoc.) could inadvertantly wind up being the ILWU's biggest ally by Promoting the very close (to asia) west coast docks.
 
I didn't think i needed to remind  YOU,.............that as this 'thing' goes, it's NOT the TWU that we're dealing with here  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Why are you going GAGA over the longshoremen? Does their tactics benefit you?  Doesn't help me or my paycheck. We will never see any militancy in the airline industry especially having the TWU or the IAM represent us. The airline industry and its unions have been totally transformed with the airlines holding all the cards.
 
I can tell you from growing up in NY that the Longshoremen and the ILA got destroyed. I used to see hundreds of them go sign in at the Local only to get sent home with FULL pay because there was no work. many shipping companies left the docks of Brooklyn and went elsewhere where there were no unions. They had what was called Guaranteed Wages. they would get paid regardless of whether or not there was work. All started to change in the late 70s. When the shipping companies left, so did the guaranteed wage.
How long did they expect that to last?
 
So while you are creaming in your jeans about the longshoremen, do some research and find out they are a shadow of their former selves.
 
Totally agree, Metal. All it sounds like they've guaranteed is that the guys there will be able to retire. 20 years from now, they'll be a fragment of a shadow.
 
MetalMover said:
Why are you going GAGA over the longshoremen?
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Bears loves to abuse his employer (Amtrak) and their customers.
 
Don't you remember him coming on here bragging about it.
 
The reason he is going GAGA over them is because he feels like they are "sticking it" to to their employer. 
 
Bears is not about UNIONism, Bears is about feeling empowered by snubbing authority then hiding behind his "big brother".
 
He is like that annoying, mouthy shrimp in school that mouths off then has his buddies do his fighting for him.
 
You would think someone in their 60's would have grown up....... in Bear's case..... you would be wrong.
 
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MetalMover said:
Why are you going GAGA over the longshoremen? Does their tactics benefit you?  Doesn't help me or my paycheck. We will never see any militancy in the airline industry especially having the TWU or the IAM represent us. The airline industry and its unions have been totally transformed with the airlines holding all the cards.
 
I can tell you from growing up in NY that the Longshoremen and the ILA got destroyed. I used to see hundreds of them go sign in at the Local only to get sent home with FULL pay because there was no work. many shipping companies left the docks of Brooklyn and went elsewhere where there were no unions. They had what was called Guaranteed Wages. they would get paid regardless of whether or not there was work. All started to change in the late 70s. When the shipping companies left, so did the guaranteed wage.
How long did they expect that to last?
 
So while you are creaming in your jeans about the longshoremen, do some research and find out they are a shadow of their former selves.
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"Metal, I faced the 'shape-up' in BOS MANY times, so I KNOW  w-t-f...I'm talking about.
BUT, you are Right as well. I remember the  " G A I " (Guaranteed annual income). As far as Brooklyn goes, they LEFT  'Crooklyn' because they physically OUTGREW those docks, and moved to Port Eliz.,Bayonne and Howland Hook on Staten Island.  Bottom line, don't think I read about this stuff in a paperback novel.  As far as the I L A is concerned, those Bastards NEVER knew a secret handshake that they didn't like  !!!!!!!!!!!!  Kinda like the TWU.
 
Harry Bridges'...I L W U, could NOT BE BOUGHT. It's what makes them so special and   T O U G H (Just ask the PMA) Pacific maritime association.  Imagine a Union so F'n STRONG that they single handidly are causing the PANAMA CANAL to be widened !
 
I guess the PMA are paying some of the senior (overtime) heavy hitters.....200K a year out of kindness !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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