THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL

[MCI transplant]

Sorry, but I'm thinking beyond the company certificates to the FAA, and wondering if "one-license-fits-all" really works anymore.

<_< ------ No Eric, I'm the one who's Sorry.----- I believe I Zigged, when I should have Zagged! I see what your saying, and to some degree agree with you. The Canadians, and Brits "Type Certify" their mechanics to a particular Aircraft, and Engine. FAA toyed with this idea a few years back, but drooped it. They still may go back to it in the future. But I'm not sure that's the right approach, or not!

 

[The Goose]

<_< ------ No Eric, I'm the one who's Sorry.----- I believe I Zigged, when I should have Zagged! I see what your saying, and to some degree agree with you. The Canadians, and Brits "Type Certify" their mechanics to a particular Aircraft, and Engine. FAA toyed with this idea a few years back, but drooped it. They still may go back to it in the future. But I'm not sure that's the right approach, or not!

It would actually make sense, MCI. There are some basics involved but there are vast differences also. Pilots need to have a minimum time in type and there's really no reason it can't happen with mechanics.

If the airlines were forced to use mechs certified in repairs on particular aircraft areas (and a real certification program were established instead of the joke company training we have now), I dare say there would be a considerable upgrade in the overall level of competence amongst mechanics. This alone would command a higher pay level for those left after the inevitable "weeding out".

Unfortunately, given the manner in which rules are made at the federal level, this would probably have the exact opposite effect after the airlines got done lobbying the FAA - the situation would be worse than it is now as anything that may better the mechanic's lot is bad for the companies.

 

[Boomer]

You might not like having non-A&P's people working on aircraft, but I suspect you'd have a far better argument for higher pay on the line.

Aside from tradition and preserving union dues, is it really necessary to be a generalist (A&P) if you're working nothing but overhaul, or in a specialty like Avionics? Sure, it gives you a broader base of education, but if you never use the skills you learn in school, they're fairly useless after a few years.

They may have the same license and education, but the doctor who has done nothing but breast implants or radiology isn't going to be able to fill in as an ER doctor, and vice versa...

I almost can see a case for separate licenses. A&P for the line, perhaps Avionics as a standalone license and not an add-on, and perhaps something for the overhaul guys who do nothing but components. Just a thought...

Sorry, but I'm thinking beyond the company certificates to the FAA, and wondering if "one-license-fits-all" really works anymore.

eolesen,

Physicians Assistants do not, by and large, perform surgery or proscribe medication; Legal Asssitants do not Litigate or file Appeal.

While an individual below the level of an A&P may be able to perform individual tasks more economically than any particular A&P Mechanic, they cannot have the understanding of how their task performance will impact the overall performance of the airframe without the knowledge and skill set imparted during the training of an A&P certified mechanic.

The certification of individual skill set for Avionics, Sheet Metal, Composites, Electrical Distribution, Hydraulics, Pneumatics should be based on prior certification of the individual for the Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic due to the downstream impact their performance will have on the certification of airworthiness.

"Dumbing-Down" is not the answer to increasing the margins of aviation safety during a period when overhaul is increasingly sent overseas, outside the requirements and scrutiny of domestic regulation.

Raising the bar to entry will increase the prevailing wage as it decreases the population capable of both passing the requisite entry due to performance and background: while preventing the diminution of standards and accountablility neccesarily required for increasing the safety margins as newer generation aircraft are deployed with structures and systems that are different from the older generation airframes.

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry, but I'm thinking beyond the company certificates to the FAA, and wondering if "one-license-fits-all" really works anymore.

I'm wondering if an MBA is really necessary. Why not a regular BA? Cost less to get it and companies don't have to pay MBA salary and entice them with bonuses and other perks.


We've all been seeing how the Masters of the Universe are doing on Wall Street these days. Some have been lying to federal regulators for years with some going to prison and others getting a pass with bailout money and getting to keep their "contractual" bonuses.

 

[DalMD88]

Given that the legacy airlines have not hired off-the-street mechanics for the past seven years, I would have figured that fewer students would enroll in training programs. But if legacies hang the help wanted signs outside the door, gotta figure that more kids would enroll.

And if too few mechanics are being minted, that can only help the wage situation. Too few mechanics = higher wages.

DL has been hiring of the street in a few locations for a the past couple of years. Granted they have only been a few and they are all at high cost stations, but there are guys with 2006-2009 hire dates. Now we are adding some to take over the NW contract work at a few stations. Yes, some are the same guys that worked for Swissport, but some are new right off the street.

 

[Runwaysticker]

:down:

 

[upsilon]

:down:

And what is that supposed to mean? Or add to this thread.

 

[The Goose]

I'm wondering if an MBA is really necessary. Why not a regular BA? Cost less to get it and companies don't have to pay MBA salary and entice them with bonuses and other perks.

Mr. Hopeful, the degree isn't necessary. Over the years it's been allowed to substitute for old-fashioned common sense, but of the type that has an aire of aristocracy about it with an unhealthy dose of "me first" added.

Look at the degree as a requirement for entry into a rather exclusive club; bear in mind, however, that requirement in no way guarantees acceptance into the club. Many years of playing the game (the real purpose of the degree is to teach the game) must happen before one is accepted into the club - that still may be sabotaged if one's boss needs a scapegoat along the line; those with less ladder rungs behind them may be sacrificed for the boss.

We've all been seeing how the Masters of the Universe are doing on Wall Street these days. Some have been lying to federal regulators for years with some going to prison and others getting a pass with bailout money and getting to keep their "contractual" bonuses.

Unfortunately, not nearly enough of them have fallen. There are still thousands out there that believe they are invincible because of so-called friendships, favors extended during their years of climbing the corporate ladder, and their ability to convince their bosses of the need for an outrageous number of underlings, their only function being to stand in line waiting to fall on the sword if the time comes to save the boss from all harm in hopes of a later repayment in kind.

... but - the degree itself?

No more than the opinion of a third party as to the willingness of an individual to play the corporate game.

 

[Runwaysticker]

And what is that supposed to mean? Or add to this thread.

Anyone who worked for Swissport as a mechanic after the NW AMFA strike, they stuck a knife in the back of all union A&P mechanics. As for the hanger in DFW, with the fabric going up in TUL it don't look good for HGR 5 AMTs in DFW..................................

 

[Bob Owens]

eolesen,

Physicians Assistants do not, by and large, perform surgery or proscribe medication; Legal Asssitants do not Litigate or file Appeal.

While an individual below the level of an A&P may be able to perform individual tasks more economically than any particular A&P Mechanic, they cannot have the understanding of how their task performance will impact the overall performance of the airframe without the knowledge and skill set imparted during the training of an A&P certified mechanic.

The certification of individual skill set for Avionics, Sheet Metal, Composites, Electrical Distribution, Hydraulics, Pneumatics should be based on prior certification of the individual for the Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic due to the downstream impact their performance will have on the certification of airworthiness.

"Dumbing-Down" is not the answer to increasing the margins of aviation safety during a period when overhaul is increasingly sent overseas, outside the requirements and scrutiny of domestic regulation.

Raising the bar to entry will increase the prevailing wage as it decreases the population capable of both passing the requisite entry due to performance and background: while preventing the diminution of standards and accountablility neccesarily required for increasing the safety margins as newer generation aircraft are deployed with structures and systems that are different from the older generation airframes.

I agree, a local butcher probably is familiar enough with internally anatomy and could cut out a tumor as effeciently as the local surgeon but the Butcher lacks the background to know how things operate and what can go wrong if things arent done exactly right.

 

[JimJimmyJim]

Word is AA signed a 2 year deal on Hanger 5 at DFW/DWH (old Delta hanger). Judging by the equipment leaving there I find that interesting. Time will tell.