TWU - Joint or Seperate Negotiations

[RV4]

The TWU, in an attempt to emulate AMFA and stifle an organizing drive allowed seperate negotiations for the 2001 Labor Agreement.
I have not heard mention of this for upcoming concession negotiations.
Does anyone know if these talks are seperate or joint when it comes to the different craft or classes as designated by the National Mediation Board?

 

[1AA]

Directors Update



February 20, 2003



To: AA Local Presidents and Members.





Dear Brothers,



It is unfortunate that, as we approach a crucial time during which we must make careful, deliberate decisions, some Company officials have provided inaccurate information as to what has been discussed so far, as well as the documentation we have been provided. At this juncture, the only documentation provided to the TWU deals with the Company's financial condition. Our experts have analyzed this data, and their analysis was given to the Presidents.



We have been provided with the Company's detailed financial reorganization plan, and it is presently under analysis by our economic advisers. The Company has not made concrete proposals for modifications to our agreements. There have been no negotiations between the TWU and the Company on such matters (or any matters), nor will such negotiations occur without convening full Bargaining Committees for both Joint and Mechanic and Related Negotiations. As I stated in my last posting, starting next week, we had intended to review and analyze the Company's reorganization plan and transmit the information to the Presidents. We believed this process allowed for orderly and fully informed consideration of our options, but I am going to have to reconsider whether even these limited discussions with the Company are worthwhile if we are going to have to continue to correct misinformation put out by management.



Fraternally,



James C. Little Gary Yingst

Director Air Transport Division TWU-AA System Coordinator





Robert Gless John Conley

International Representative International Representative

 

[410OhOne]

[blockquote]
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On 2/20/2003 1019 PM RV4 wrote:

The TWU, in an attempt to emulate AMFA and stifle an organizing drive allowed seperate negotiations for the 2001 Labor Agreement.

I have not heard mention of this for upcoming concession negotiations.

Does anyone know if these talks are seperate or joint when it comes to the different craft or classes as designated by the National Mediation Board?
----------------
[/blockquote]

Is RV4 pro industrial union or pro trade union?

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 2/20/2003 10:23:54 PM 410OhOne wrote:

Is RV4 pro industrial union or pro trade union?

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[/blockquote]

Craft Union or Industrial Union?

The AMFA drive, which appears to be rapidly evolving into an industry-wide movement, is in reality the continuation of a struggle between the craft unionism concept of workers organizations versus the theory of industrial unionism. AMFA supporters are generally adherents to the craft ideology, which holds that labor unions derive the bulk of their strength from members skill, not simply the sheer number of workers, and should be organized accordingly. Conversely, IAM patrons tend to be advocates of industrial unionism, which espouses the belief that the sheer numbers of members is the determining factor in the strength of workers organizations, and all workers within a given industry should belong to "one big union" An individuals preference often appears related to his or her skill level, and both philosophies have gained acceptance during different eras of American labor history.

During the previous century and well into the 1900s the craft concept was embraced by most unionists as the only realistic avenue to strong, powerful worker organizations which could effectively negotiate better wages, hours and working conditions for members. The old-line craft unions created the American Federation of Labor (AFL) in 1886 and dominated that organization until the mid-20th century. These early trade unions, comprised almost exclusively of skilled craftsmen, vastly improved the lives of workers. Among their numerous accomplishments: major increases in wages, the 8-hour work day, the first minimum-wage law (Massachusetts), creation of the U. S. Department of Labor, and legislative restrictions on the use of injunctions in labor disputes. Amazingly, they achieved these impressive gains during an era renown for government and corporate antagonism toward workers. All American workers owe a mammoth debt to those skilled and unionized craftsmen.

Industrial unionism, previously unable to sustain growth and toting the baggage of several well- publicized and disastrous strikes, blossomed during the late 1930s. The favorable legislation of President Franklin Roosevelt' s New Deal and dynamic organizing drives combined to produce great gains in union membership. In 1938 a group of dissident unions, unhappy with the AFL's craft union culture, were expelled from the federation. They formed the Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) and focused their efforts on unionizing mass-production workers.
The success of the unskilled workers' organizations was not rooted in the proven demand for highly trained professionals, as is true of craft unions. The industrial unions good fortune was fundamentally dependant upon circumstance: an expanding economy; beneficial Federal legislation; a regulated business environment; a dearth of competitive labor and protectionist trade policies. For a relatively brief period of time these conditions prevailed in the U. S., particularly in highly regulated sectors such as trucking, railroads and airlines.
The old craft unions of the AFL became jealous of the growth and wealth enjoyed by the CIO organizations and began to actively recruit unskilled workers. Many craft unions, once proud bastions of skilled artisans with exacting requirements for admittance, relaxed standards so that anyone willing to pay dues was admitted. CIO unions aggressively solicited unhappy AFL units. Soon, a large number of craft unions and industrial unions were distinguishable in name only.

In 1955 the AFL and CIO merged and the "raids" ceased. The lure of enhanced revenues proved addictive, though, and craft unions continued to woo unskilled and semi-skilled workers. Numerous unions of the old AFL, once the domain of America's most skilled craftsmen, are now thoroughly dominated and controlled by unskilled laborers.

References

"The Encyclopedia Americana" International Edition, 1994. Volume 16, pages 621-634.

"Labor in America" by Foster Rhea Dulles & Melvin Dubofsky, 1993, 5th edition. Published by Harlan Davidson, Inc.

"THE FIGHTING MACHINISTS" by Robert G. Rodden. Published by Kelly Press, Inc., Washington, DC.

"Academic American Encyclopedia" 1989. Vol. 12 pages 152-156.

 

[410OhOne]

Ok thanks Buck, but is RV4 pro industrial or pro trade?

 

[Buck]

I am sure that he will respond.

 

[Boomer]

Directors Update 2-21-03

Via Fax-Email

To Local Presidents and AAL Members:


We intend to update the membership regularly as we work through American's reorganization. Accordingly, we want to notify you that, late on February 19, 2003, we were provided with AA's financial plan for reorganization, that is, its business plan. Our financial consultants are reviewing the plan to make sure the Company has provided a viable strategy for competing in this industry in the post-September 11 environment and we will provide the Presidents with their analysis. Obviously, without such a plan, further discussions are pointless. However, in the event the Company has met this threshold, we will convene the Joint and Mechanic and Related Bargaining Committees and hear AA's proposals for contractual relief. All such proposals are subject to membership ratification, and the Joint Committee and the Mechanic and Related Committee will each determine whether proposed modifications will be submitted for ratification by work groups covered by the Joint Committee and by the Mechanic and Related Committee.

Many members have asked why we are bothering to consider any discussions with the Company on contractual relief. The reason is obvious -- the Company has the right to file for bankruptcy and demand the same relief before a Bankruptcy Court and, possibly, worse. AA has, in fact, already begun very visible preparations for a bankruptcy filing and the TWU is, of course, also preparing. Once a Bankruptcy Court takes jurisdiction over a Company like American, all litigation and even processing of grievances can be stayed. Virtually all operational decisions must be approved by the Court. If the Company seeks relief from our collective bargaining agreements, we can and will resist, but any chance we have of protecting rates of pay, hours, and working conditions will be undermined if it is established that we failed to deal in good faith with the Company when it was attempting to reorganize and avoid bankruptcy.

No matter what we do, the Company could file for bankruptcy if any union or major creditor refuses to voluntarily modify its contract with AA. In that event, the bankruptcy statute provides that, after it files a bankruptcy petition, but before it files an application seeking rejection of a collective bargaining agreement, the Company must make a proposal to the Union "which provides for those necessary modifications in the employees benefits and protections that are necessary to permit the reorganization of the debtor and assures that all creditors, the debtor, and all the affected parties are treated equitably." If the Union rejects a proposal consistent with the above requirements without "good cause" and "the balance of the equities favors rejection of such agreement", the Company's application will be granted and the concessions imposed. The Company and the Union are required to negotiate in good faith over the relief necessary to permit reorganization prior to any ruling on an application to reject a collective bargaining agreement.

Anyone tracking events at United or USAir and the veterans of the bankruptcies at TWA, Eastern, Pan Am, or Braniff can confirm that creditors in general and unions in particular tend to fare poorly in bankruptcy proceedings. Despite this, we will not yield to unfair or unreasonable demands simply to avoid this process. But, we have an equal responsibility to keep our members out of the hands of the Bankruptcy Court if we can, particularly if a superior voluntary agreement is available. It is, of course, far too early to know how this process will play itself out and many factors --such as a possible war -- are unknown. All we can do is work hard and honestly, bring all of our resources to bear, and keep you informed.



Sincerely and fraternally,

James C. Little,
Director Air Transport Division
International Administrative Vice President.


CC. ATD staff.assigned

 

[410OhOne]

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On 2/21/2003 1:46:45 PM Buck wrote:

I am sure that he will respond.
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[/blockquote]

RV4?

 

[RV4]

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On 2/21/2003 344 PM 410OhOne wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 2/21/2003 1:46:45 PM Buck wrote:

I am sure that he will respond.
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[/blockquote]

RV4?

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[/blockquote]

Your question in it's asked form and verbage is difficult to answer because the TWU is an "industrial union" but claims on it's own website to be a "trade union."

RV4 is in favor of craft unionism plain and simple.

I despise the industrial unions and the AFL-CIO.

Please do not view this as parsing words. It is just simply a case of the questions and their meaning.

Are my opinions clear to you now?

 

[AAquila]

Obviously these are difficult times, Little knows the script well, if he stalls the negotiations, AMR will seek protection long before the cash dries up. Labor can read the writing on the wall, deal now or face Torquemada, later.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

[blockquote]
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On 2/21/2003 6:59:15 PM RV4 wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 2/21/2003 344 PM 410OhOne wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 2/21/2003 1:46:45 PM Buck wrote:

I am sure that he will respond.
----------------
[/blockquote]

RV4?

----------------
[/blockquote]

Your question in it's asked form and verbage is difficult to answer because the TWU is an "industrial union" but claims on it's own website to be a "trade union."

RV4 is in favor of craft unionism plain and simple.

I despise the industrial unions and the AFL-CIO.

Please do not view this as parsing words. It is just simply a case of the questions and their meaning.

Are my opinions clear to you now?
----------------
[/blockquote]


Aw c'mon Dave, Jimmy Hoffa Sr. was one tough SOB, and the vast majority of the members LOVED HIM !!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[Buck]

Isn't he deceased?

Times are different........


State Of The Unions
Wooing White Collars
Mark Lewis, 01.16.03, 12:00 PM ET

NEW YORK - Union membership has shriveled along with the manufacturing sector, so big labor is shifting its focus to white-collar workers. But the unions could end up de-fanging themselves in the process, because professionals prefer a conciliatory approach to labor-management relations.

Almost one out of every five professionals in America is a union member, but that percentage has not grown in recent years. Still, a survey cited by a AFL-CIO study found that many professional and technical workers are open to joining a union because they want more of a voice in the workplace.

But apparently, they don't want that voice to speak very loudly. The same survey found that many professionals shy away from unions because they "might create conflict at work."

Marvin Kosters, who studies labor issues for the American Enterprise Institute, says that unions in their blue-collar heyday established a confrontational style that was suitable for the factory era. "But in a modern workplace it's much more difficult to operate that way, because so much of the work is not routine as it was on the assembly line," Kosters noted.

The hard-line approach may still find support among white-collar workers in public-sector unions. But private-sector professionals prefer their union representatives to be cooperative and constructive. "In order to thrive in the private sector they will have to develop a completely different approach," Kosters said. "It would have to be more flexible."

The difference between the blue-collar and white-collar approaches was evident last month when Boeing (nyse: BA - news - people ) easily reached agreement on a new contract with its engineers and technical workers union. That was in sharp contrast to Boeing's experience with its machinists union, which voted to reject the firm's contract offer. A strike was only averted because the machinists' "no" vote fell a little short of the required two-thirds majority.

Of course, Boeing's engineers went out on strike themselves as recently as 1999. But that negative experience seems to have contributed to a more cooperative attitude by both sides during the recent negotiations.

Similarly, the white-collar Screen Actors Guild (SAG) has pulled in its horns after its bruising 2000 strike against advertisers. The long strike featured a boycott of certain Procter & Gamble (nyse: PG - news - people ) products as well as SAG rallies outside the offices of IBM (nyse: IBM - news - people ) and advertisers Leo Burnett and Foote Cone & Belding. After the strike finally was settled, union members elected the conciliation-minded Melissa Gilbert as their new president, in preference to the candidate endorsed by strike leader William Daniels.

The AFL-CIO study observed that professional and technical workers "clearly want some form of representation and a collective approach to addressing their work-related concerns," but at the same time, "they still wonder if a union is the answer." Therefore, labor organizers seeking to make inroads among these white-collar workers must allay their concerns "that unions exacerbate workplace tensions by relying too much on confrontational tactics."

For management, it's a win either way: Unions must either become more cooperative or they will continue to lose power as the U.S. economy evolves toward a predominantly white-collar future.

But can big labor really pull off such a major personality transplant? Kosters is not holding his breath. "So far," he said, "I've not seen any indication that they've been able to make this change."


http://www.forbes.com/2003/01/16/cx_ml_011...hitecollar.html

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Buck;
(As Usual), GOOD POST. Very informative !!

("Sigh"), I guess it's true what "they say", that Old Dogs don't like new tricks.

To me, the west coast longshoreman's/Dockworkers STRIKE, was an absolute CLASSIC !!

"Oh Lord, how I miss the old days"!!

I guess I,ll have to put my HOFFA video(with good ol' JACK), and my baseball bat, away, and some place where I wont misplace them.(So I can reminisce, from time to time)

NH/BB's

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't those longshoremen locked out?


Funny how the government came to the conclusion that allowing the technicians at UAL or NWAC to strike was more detrimental to the national economy than allowing every port on the west cost to remain closed for two weeks.

 

[Buck]

I am not sure at this moment if the Longshoremen were locked out. But their craft and class is not the group being told that they must take wage and benefit concessions. The TWU in all of it's wisdom has added a "No Strike Clause" to it's contract. Where does this lead to? Even if the AFL-CIO were to "get some" legally the ground employees, must continue to work or they have violated their contract. I wonder if the Pilots and F/A's have such language in their contract?

Do the Longshoremen not make to much money? Should they not spread some of the wealth with their AFL-CIO brothers and sisters? It would be the Socialist thing to do....