Ual and their maintenance practices (alleged)
- Thread starter ualflynhi
- Start date
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On 5/11/2003 7:25:30 PM ualflynhi wrote:
http://kcbs.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage....=kcbsviewer.tpl
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On 5/11/2003 7:25:30 PM ualflynhi wrote:
http://kcbs.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage....=kcbsviewer.tpl
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So they find one disgrunteled ex-Mech and make a story out of it. Now when UAL has made the decision to farm out ALL heavy MX, can you blame them? No more disgrunteled ex-employees.
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On 5/11/2003 11:36:39 PM Busdrvr wrote:
So they find one disgrunteled ex-Mech and make a story out of it. Now when UAL has made the decision to farm out ALL heavy MX, can you blame them? No more disgrunteled ex-employees.
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At what cost?On 5/11/2003 11:36:39 PM Busdrvr wrote:
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On 5/11/2003 7:25:30 PM ualflynhi wrote:
http://kcbs.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage....=kcbsviewer.tpl
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On 5/11/2003 7:25:30 PM ualflynhi wrote:
http://kcbs.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage....=kcbsviewer.tpl
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So they find one disgrunteled ex-Mech and make a story out of it. Now when UAL has made the decision to farm out ALL heavy MX, can you blame them? No more disgrunteled ex-employees.
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UT
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On 5/12/2003 12:16:39 AM UAL_TECH wrote:
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At what cost?On 5/12/2003 12:16:39 AM UAL_TECH wrote:
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UT
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you tell me. I don''t see the guys at Tramco (or Timco) trashing the MX practices at the companies they do work for. If there were truely issues, they should have (and would have) been acted on by the FAA, especially since UAL has been under the microscope since the financial diff started. Remeber the FRNT mech who tossed a chock down the intack of one of their Guppies? Turns out they HAD done the inspections. It''s just sad that you and I will have to pay the price for a few wacked out bad apples trying to make a name for themselves, out of a group of 7000 professionals.
you tell me. I don''t see the guys at Tramco (or Timco) trashing the MX practices at the companies they do work for. If there were truely issues, they should have (and would have) been acted on by the FAA, especially since UAL has been under the microscope since the financial diff started. Remeber the FRNT mech who tossed a chock down the intack of one of their Guppies? Turns out they HAD done the inspections. It''s just sad that you and I will have to pay the price for a few wacked out bad apples trying to make a name for themselves, out of a group of 7000 professionals.
Busdriver - So why are multiple mechanics at ORD talking about when a "Lawn Dart" will happen? It''s not just a couple of wacked (sic) out bad apples. A lot of the mechanics seem happy to be laid off. I don''t think they have an axe to grind. Some of the Tramco guys may not know how to post on the Internet. Have you flown anything just back from BFM?
Busdriver - So why are multiple mechanics at ORD talking about when a "Lawn Dart" will happen? It''s not just a couple of wacked (sic) out bad apples. A lot of the mechanics seem happy to be laid off. I don''t think they have an axe to grind. Some of the Tramco guys may not know how to post on the Internet. Have you flown anything just back from BFM?
OK, I must admit I based my opinion of the "Whistle blower" on the promos. This was not an attack on UAL MX (the best in the business IMHO), but on outside contractors. Now my heartburn is with the Station. How could you POSSIBLY attack an airline that currently only outsources a relatively small amount of MX work (I know, soon to be a whole lot more), while ignoring the fact that there are some airlines that currently outsource ALL heavy MX (and have since starting business 30 years ago). But go to other boards and your''ll see blissful folks flike Frugal flyer and KC flyer who will defend the use of these Mickey mouse outfits to the end
Ignorance is Bliss
Ignorance is Bliss
"CBS found one disgruntled worker" ????
He happens to be one of at least 12 people that have filed whistlebl;ower complaints against this company, MORE THAN ANY OTHER AIRLINE.
"Why don''t the guys at Timco or Tramco or MAE file reports?" They know they to would be FIRED with little recourse except file a whistleblower complaint. Many of the people that complained at UAL thought the union would help but found otherwise. The fact is some found the union helping the company to fire them. That is why more have not spoken along with todays apathetic attitude towards everything by the public.
He happens to be one of at least 12 people that have filed whistlebl;ower complaints against this company, MORE THAN ANY OTHER AIRLINE.
"Why don''t the guys at Timco or Tramco or MAE file reports?" They know they to would be FIRED with little recourse except file a whistleblower complaint. Many of the people that complained at UAL thought the union would help but found otherwise. The fact is some found the union helping the company to fire them. That is why more have not spoken along with todays apathetic attitude towards everything by the public.
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On 5/13/2003 9
49 AM Busdrvr wrote:
OK, I must admit I based my opinion of the "Whistle blower" on the promos. This was not an attack on UAL MX (the best in the business IMHO), but on outside contractors. Now my heartburn is with the Station. How could you POSSIBLY attack an airline that currently only outsources a relatively small amount of MX work (I know, soon to be a whole lot more), while ignoring the fact that there are some airlines that currently outsource ALL heavy MX (and have since starting business 30 years ago). But go to other boards and your''ll see blissful folks flike Frugal flyer and KC flyer who will defend the use of these Mickey mouse outfits to the end
Ignorance is Bliss
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On 5/13/2003 9
49 AM Busdrvr wrote: OK, I must admit I based my opinion of the "Whistle blower" on the promos. This was not an attack on UAL MX (the best in the business IMHO), but on outside contractors. Now my heartburn is with the Station. How could you POSSIBLY attack an airline that currently only outsources a relatively small amount of MX work (I know, soon to be a whole lot more), while ignoring the fact that there are some airlines that currently outsource ALL heavy MX (and have since starting business 30 years ago). But go to other boards and your''ll see blissful folks flike Frugal flyer and KC flyer who will defend the use of these Mickey mouse outfits to the end
Ignorance is Bliss
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Actually Busdrvr (or I guess it''s Busrider nowadays), I''m not defending Tramco per se, as much as attacking your ignorant point of view. To me, most of your post come across as: the pilots/mechanics/emploees at SW/jetBlue/Airtran/other company are lower paid therefore not as good as those at UAL. Then, once somebody post a good rebuttal, you resort to snide comments (and/or personal attacks at times). To me, that''s mickey mouse, ignorant and unprofessional!
But hey, its your opinion, and I choose to disagree.
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On 5/14/2003 9:57:45 AM FrugalFlyer wrote:
"Actually Busdrvr (or I guess it's Busrider nowadays), I'm not defending Tramco per se, as much as attacking your ignorant point of view."
Actually, you DID directly defend one of these Chopshops.
"To me, most of your post come across as: the pilots/mechanics/emploees at SW/jetBlue/Airtran/other company are lower paid therefore not as good as those at UAL."
First, I have NEVER said SWA's employees were less competent of professional as any other airlines employees, SWA's Pilots are among the BEST in the industry. If you've actually READ many of my posts, you'd see my main gripe with SWA is that they rely too heavily on stock options for compensation, to the detriment of the rest of the industry, (and one day to themselves). but don't believe me, ask any REAL investment advisor how smart it is to put a large part of your families long term security in one companies stock. JetBlu NOW gets the cream of the crop of pilots, they are just about the only guys doing any hiring. But if you think the FIRST crowd, hired BEFORE Sept 11, when NOT ONE analyst foresaw real long term risk for UAL, AMR, CAL, DAL, or NWA, who we hired at wages SUSTANTIALLY lower than market rates, in an industry were the 5 year success rate is abyssmal, is the SAME as at the majors (or SWA) then I personally think you are nuts. As for Valudeath, sorry, I think they suck (and I do know several present and former pilots there, and part of my opinion is based on who left and who stayed). Now MY opionion is based on the fact that I have PERSONALLY trained HUNDREDS of pilots, and personally know THOUSANDS. I know where the best students ended up, and where the WORST ended up. I know what backgrounds produce great pilots, and which ones produce "good" pilots. But you've probably eaten your share or Airline snack mix, and read your share of inflight magazines, so I'm sure YOU know better. I may act like I know better than you because I do.
Ignorance is Bliss
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On 5/14/2003 9:57:45 AM FrugalFlyer wrote:
"Actually Busdrvr (or I guess it's Busrider nowadays), I'm not defending Tramco per se, as much as attacking your ignorant point of view."
Actually, you DID directly defend one of these Chopshops.
"To me, most of your post come across as: the pilots/mechanics/emploees at SW/jetBlue/Airtran/other company are lower paid therefore not as good as those at UAL."
First, I have NEVER said SWA's employees were less competent of professional as any other airlines employees, SWA's Pilots are among the BEST in the industry. If you've actually READ many of my posts, you'd see my main gripe with SWA is that they rely too heavily on stock options for compensation, to the detriment of the rest of the industry, (and one day to themselves). but don't believe me, ask any REAL investment advisor how smart it is to put a large part of your families long term security in one companies stock. JetBlu NOW gets the cream of the crop of pilots, they are just about the only guys doing any hiring. But if you think the FIRST crowd, hired BEFORE Sept 11, when NOT ONE analyst foresaw real long term risk for UAL, AMR, CAL, DAL, or NWA, who we hired at wages SUSTANTIALLY lower than market rates, in an industry were the 5 year success rate is abyssmal, is the SAME as at the majors (or SWA) then I personally think you are nuts. As for Valudeath, sorry, I think they suck (and I do know several present and former pilots there, and part of my opinion is based on who left and who stayed). Now MY opionion is based on the fact that I have PERSONALLY trained HUNDREDS of pilots, and personally know THOUSANDS. I know where the best students ended up, and where the WORST ended up. I know what backgrounds produce great pilots, and which ones produce "good" pilots. But you've probably eaten your share or Airline snack mix, and read your share of inflight magazines, so I'm sure YOU know better. I may act like I know better than you because I do.
Ignorance is Bliss
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On 5/14/2003 10:52:12 AM Busdrvr wrote:
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On 5/14/2003 10:52:12 AM Busdrvr wrote:
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On 5/14/2003 9:57:45 AM FrugalFlyer wrote:
"Actually Busdrvr (or I guess it's Busrider nowadays), I'm not defending Tramco per se, as much as attacking your ignorant point of view."
Actually, you DID directly defend one of these Chopshops.
"To me, most of your post come across as: the pilots/mechanics/emploees at SW/jetBlue/Airtran/other company are lower paid therefore not as good as those at UAL."
First, I have NEVER said SWA's employees were less competent of professional as any other airlines employees, SWA's Pilots are among the BEST in the industry. If you've actually READ many of my posts, you'd see my main gripe with SWA is that they rely too heavily on stock options for compensation, to the detriment of the rest of the industry, (and one day to themselves). but don't believe me, ask any REAL investment advisor how smart it is to put a large part of your families long term security in one companies stock. JetBlu NOW gets the cream of the crop of pilots, they are just about the only guys doing any hiring. But if you think the FIRST crowd, hired BEFORE Sept 11, when NOT ONE analyst foresaw real long term risk for UAL, AMR, CAL, DAL, or NWA, who we hired at wages SUSTANTIALLY lower than market rates, in an industry were the 5 year success rate is abyssmal, is the SAME as at the majors (or SWA) then I personally think you are nuts. As for Valudeath, sorry, I think they suck (and I do know several present and former pilots there, and part of my opinion is based on who left and who stayed). Now MY opionion is based on the fact that I have PERSONALLY trained HUNDREDS of pilots, and personally know THOUSANDS. I know where the best students ended up, and where the WORST ended up. I know what backgrounds produce great pilots, and which ones produce "good" pilots. But you've probably eaten your share or Airline snack mix, and read your share of inflight magazines, so I'm sure YOU know better. I may act like I know better than you because I do.
Ignorance is Bliss
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On 5/14/2003 9:57:45 AM FrugalFlyer wrote:
"Actually Busdrvr (or I guess it's Busrider nowadays), I'm not defending Tramco per se, as much as attacking your ignorant point of view."
Actually, you DID directly defend one of these Chopshops.
"To me, most of your post come across as: the pilots/mechanics/emploees at SW/jetBlue/Airtran/other company are lower paid therefore not as good as those at UAL."
First, I have NEVER said SWA's employees were less competent of professional as any other airlines employees, SWA's Pilots are among the BEST in the industry. If you've actually READ many of my posts, you'd see my main gripe with SWA is that they rely too heavily on stock options for compensation, to the detriment of the rest of the industry, (and one day to themselves). but don't believe me, ask any REAL investment advisor how smart it is to put a large part of your families long term security in one companies stock. JetBlu NOW gets the cream of the crop of pilots, they are just about the only guys doing any hiring. But if you think the FIRST crowd, hired BEFORE Sept 11, when NOT ONE analyst foresaw real long term risk for UAL, AMR, CAL, DAL, or NWA, who we hired at wages SUSTANTIALLY lower than market rates, in an industry were the 5 year success rate is abyssmal, is the SAME as at the majors (or SWA) then I personally think you are nuts. As for Valudeath, sorry, I think they suck (and I do know several present and former pilots there, and part of my opinion is based on who left and who stayed). Now MY opionion is based on the fact that I have PERSONALLY trained HUNDREDS of pilots, and personally know THOUSANDS. I know where the best students ended up, and where the WORST ended up. I know what backgrounds produce great pilots, and which ones produce "good" pilots. But you've probably eaten your share or Airline snack mix, and read your share of inflight magazines, so I'm sure YOU know better. I may act like I know better than you because I do.
Ignorance is Bliss
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So are we implying that there is a correlation between pilot salary and air safety? It would be interesting to see safety data of low fare carriers vs. majors based on miles flown. This should all be public source data, right?
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On 5/14/2003 10:52:12 AM Busdrvr wrote:
First, I have NEVER said SWA''s employees were less competent of professional as any other airlines employees, SWA''s Pilots are among the BEST in the industry.
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On 5/14/2003 10:52:12 AM Busdrvr wrote:
First, I have NEVER said SWA''s employees were less competent of professional as any other airlines employees, SWA''s Pilots are among the BEST in the industry.
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Here you say that SW pilots are the best in the industry, yet wasn''t it you who was questioning their professionalism because SW does not (or did not) use ACARS? To me it looks like you want to have it both ways - sounds like your saying that SW pilots are professional but cheaters at the same time.
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JetBlu NOW gets the cream of the crop of pilots, they are just about the only guys doing any hiring. But if you think the FIRST crowd, hired BEFORE Sept 11, when NOT ONE analyst foresaw real long term risk for UAL, AMR, CAL, DAL, or NWA, who we hired at wages SUSTANTIALLY lower than market rates, in an industry were the 5 year success rate is abyssmal, is the SAME as at the majors (or SWA) then I personally think you are nuts.
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JetBlu NOW gets the cream of the crop of pilots, they are just about the only guys doing any hiring. But if you think the FIRST crowd, hired BEFORE Sept 11, when NOT ONE analyst foresaw real long term risk for UAL, AMR, CAL, DAL, or NWA, who we hired at wages SUSTANTIALLY lower than market rates, in an industry were the 5 year success rate is abyssmal, is the SAME as at the majors (or SWA) then I personally think you are nuts.
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So are you implying that there is an accident waiting to happen at jetBlue? But not because of their mechanics or Tramco but because of their pilots?
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Now MY opionion is based on the fact that I have PERSONALLY trained HUNDREDS of pilots, and personally know THOUSANDS. I know where the best students ended up, and where the WORST ended up. I know what backgrounds produce great pilots, and which ones produce "good" pilots.
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Now MY opionion is based on the fact that I have PERSONALLY trained HUNDREDS of pilots, and personally know THOUSANDS. I know where the best students ended up, and where the WORST ended up. I know what backgrounds produce great pilots, and which ones produce "good" pilots.
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But how objective is your evaluation? How much of your evaluation is subjective? Actually, I''d like to know how you or anybody that trains pilots ranks them (good or bad). What are some of the criteria that you look at?
Your statement that you know what backgrounds produce great pilots kind of worries me that you may be too quick to make judgements. I bet that if you knew what field I work in, and looked at my undergraduate grades, you would immediately give me a bad ranking - say that I am one of the worst in my field - without knowing that I partied way too much as an undergrad and have matured/changed since then (for the better I think).
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But you''ve probably eaten your share or Airline snack mix, and read your share of inflight magazines, so I''m sure YOU know better. I may act like I know better than you because I do.
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But you''ve probably eaten your share or Airline snack mix, and read your share of inflight magazines, so I''m sure YOU know better. I may act like I know better than you because I do.
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I may have eaten a good amount of airline food and read a few inflight mags. But, you are too quick to generalize. I may not know as much as you (certainly when it comes to piloting), but I can assure you that I''m not at the stupid portion of the curve of the general flying public (or the $99 fare portion, even though my handle may suggest it).
Rather that anecdotal information and personal conjecture, lets deal with the facts. Look at the list of commercial air fatalities since 1982. AA, UA, US account for the majority.
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Paxfatal.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Paxfatal.htm
casual rat
Senior
- Aug 25, 2002
- 413
- 3
Uh, maybe it''s because those airlines have more flights per day? At least we don''t put oxygen generators on our planes--by management suggestion--like some of our competitors have in the past.
