UAL on pace to lose another 1B +
- Thread starter Bizman
- Start date
Dave,Fly,Novaqt,
Nobody wants to see you fail, this is just a polite conversation about the industry. United and it''s employees are so busy telling each other how great they are that they don''t take time to listen to the problem. United is a bad product . Fix it!
Nobody wants to see you fail, this is just a polite conversation about the industry. United and it''s employees are so busy telling each other how great they are that they don''t take time to listen to the problem. United is a bad product . Fix it!
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On 5/30/2003 12
19 AM BOBO BENKINS wrote:
Dave,Fly,Novaqt,
United and it''s employees are so busy telling each other how great they are that they don''t take time to listen to the problem. United is a bad product . Fix it!
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On 5/30/2003 12
19 AM BOBO BENKINS wrote: Dave,Fly,Novaqt,
United and it''s employees are so busy telling each other how great they are that they don''t take time to listen to the problem. United is a bad product . Fix it!
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Fair enough, we''re listening. Whats wrong with the product and what should we do to fix it?
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On 5/29/2003 8
41 PM Dave wrote:
>>I thought that UAL would make it, but the absence of an equity investor is now causing me to have doubts. USAir seemed to attract a lot more interest from the Alabama Pension Fund and TPG. Where is the interest in UAL?
On 5/29/2003 8
41 PM Dave wrote: >>I thought that UAL would make it, but the absence of an equity investor is now causing me to have doubts. USAir seemed to attract a lot more interest from the Alabama Pension Fund and TPG. Where is the interest in UAL?
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On 5/30/2003 12:27:59 AM Busdrvr wrote:
Fair enough, we''re listening. Whats wrong with the product and what should we do to fix it?
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On 5/30/2003 12:27:59 AM Busdrvr wrote:
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On 5/30/2003 1219 AM BOBO BENKINS wrote:
Dave,Fly,Novaqt,
United and it''s employees are so busy telling each other how great they are that they don''t take time to listen to the problem. United is a bad product . Fix it!
----------------
On 5/30/2003 12
19 AM BOBO BENKINS wrote: Dave,Fly,Novaqt,
United and it''s employees are so busy telling each other how great they are that they don''t take time to listen to the problem. United is a bad product . Fix it!
----------------
Fair enough, we''re listening. Whats wrong with the product and what should we do to fix it?
----------------
What''s wrong is that almost all of the management running UAL needs to be replaced. There has never been labor peace. Command & rule method of managing. Hiring execs from other airlines. New head of maintenance and onboard services from AA. I cannot confirm this but I hear the maintenance guy was about to be fired from AA. You can read another thread about one for onboard services. Tilton has not taken out the trash yet. He is real good at picking up other people’s trash.
United is run by the same people that helped cause it to fail. We need new blood. I keep hearing that we need to compete with Southwest & Jetblue. All our wages & work rules should be inline with the low cost carriers. We should be able to compete in any market. I know I make less than the Southwest mechanic.
Our product is as good as anyone else’s. It''s the people running the show. Every time I see an employee go out of his or her way to do the right thing they get hammered from management for stupid little things. Management’s performance is based on the wrong things. At least in Maintenance. It''s all about them and not the good of the airline. When they decide to work as a team for the good of the airline then maybe we can do better all around.
It seems to me that UAL is doing a great job of getting passengers from point A to point B. If we need to compete with Southwest then maybe treating the employees as #1 then the customer just like Southwest would be a good idea.
To fix UAL you need to fix those who run the company.
I hope I didn’t get off the subject too much.
KCFlyer
Veteran
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On 5/30/2003 1146 AM gatemech wrote:
What''s wrong is that almost all of the management running UAL needs to be replaced. There has never been labor peace. Command & rule method of managing. Hiring execs from other airlines. New head of maintenance and onboard services from AA. I cannot confirm this but I hear the maintenance guy was about to be fired from AA. You can read another thread about one for onboard services. Tilton has not taken out the trash yet. He is real good at picking up other people’s trash.
Who would you suggest replace any of the UAL managment? If they all need to go, who can step into a mangement position at an airline without having come from another airline? And who would labor trust any farther than they could throw, as long as they are paid a salary that is on par with CEO pay?
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On 5/30/2003 11
46 AM gatemech wrote:What''s wrong is that almost all of the management running UAL needs to be replaced. There has never been labor peace. Command & rule method of managing. Hiring execs from other airlines. New head of maintenance and onboard services from AA. I cannot confirm this but I hear the maintenance guy was about to be fired from AA. You can read another thread about one for onboard services. Tilton has not taken out the trash yet. He is real good at picking up other people’s trash.
Who would you suggest replace any of the UAL managment? If they all need to go, who can step into a mangement position at an airline without having come from another airline? And who would labor trust any farther than they could throw, as long as they are paid a salary that is on par with CEO pay?
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If they all need to go, who can step into a mangement position at an airline without having come from another airline? And who would labor trust any farther than they could throw, as long as they are paid a salary that is on par with CEO pay?
----------------
If they all need to go, who can step into a mangement position at an airline without having come from another airline? And who would labor trust any farther than they could throw, as long as they are paid a salary that is on par with CEO pay?
----------------
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hmmmmm, Don Carty has some extra time on his hands to devote to new pursuits...
Bob
How on earth can you say UAL is a "bad product, fix it". What does UAL do that the other carriers are not doing? We are the #1 ontime airline, provide a global route structure and have been beaten to submission by the so called experts and all the Sunday morning CEO''s here on this board. The cost cuts and productivity changes for all employee groups did not go into effect until May 1st.
How on earth can you say UAL is a "bad product, fix it". What does UAL do that the other carriers are not doing? We are the #1 ontime airline, provide a global route structure and have been beaten to submission by the so called experts and all the Sunday morning CEO''s here on this board. The cost cuts and productivity changes for all employee groups did not go into effect until May 1st.
"So I am curious as to how much of the conflicting news reports can be attributed to lazy reporters and so called industry experts who never actually ride in a seat. Sometimes I think the media are the real enemy of an airline recovery."
Bob, when''s the last time you picked up a newspaper that said "EVERY TTHING IS FINE, CHECK BACK TOMMOROW". Newspapers make money by printing stories that may strike up interest. the latest NYT scandle seems to suggest they will go to great lengths to ensure we are entertained. Same with brokers. Brokerage houses don''t make money when you buy a few shares and hold them for 50 years. they make the bucks when you buy and sell, It''s comical the number of stocks that go from "strong buy" to "hold" (code for sell) in a matter of weeks, only to go back to buy.
Bob, when''s the last time you picked up a newspaper that said "EVERY TTHING IS FINE, CHECK BACK TOMMOROW". Newspapers make money by printing stories that may strike up interest. the latest NYT scandle seems to suggest they will go to great lengths to ensure we are entertained. Same with brokers. Brokerage houses don''t make money when you buy a few shares and hold them for 50 years. they make the bucks when you buy and sell, It''s comical the number of stocks that go from "strong buy" to "hold" (code for sell) in a matter of weeks, only to go back to buy.
UAL Is Revising $1.8 Bln Loan
Guarantee Application, CEO
Says
May 31 (Bloomberg) -- United Airlines is revising its
application for a $1.8 billion U.S. government loan
guarantee in an effort to emerge from bankruptcy
protection, Chief Executive Glenn Tilton said.
``We''re actively supplementing the application,''''
Tilton told reporters following a news conference in
Washington. ``We are in the process of doing it.''''
UAL Corp.''s United filed the airline industry''s largest
bankruptcy Dec. 9, five days after a U.S.
government board failed to approve the carrier''s
application for a $1.8 billion loan guarantee. The
board''s executive director said at the time United
would be allowed to submit a new plan as part of
Chapter 11 restructuring.
United will take a new business plan to its board of
directors in June and meet with a creditors''
committee, Tilton said. After getting reaction to the
plan, United will submit the revised application to
the Air Transportation Stabilization Board, he said.
The board was set up under a law enacted 11 days
after the Sept. 11 attacks to administer loan
guarantees to help carriers recover from losses
related to the terrorist attacks. The board on Dec. 4
decided United''s application was ``not financially
sound.''''
Several items will be different in the new application,
Tilton said. The revised application will include $2.5
billion in employee savings, while the original proposal had $900 million in labor concessions, he said.
Tilton said United is getting ``significant interest'''' from debt and equity markets for bankruptcy exit financing,
though he didn''t elaborate on details.
Early 2004
He said a case can be made for emerging early enough to gain revenue from the busy travel season in early
2004, though no final decision has been made.
``There''s no precise time frame for exiting,'''' Tilton said. ``We have a lot of options.''''
Tilton told employees this month the company may be able to come out of Chapter 11 sooner than expected
because it''s making progress in reducing costs. UAL had said it would take until mid- 2004 to conclude its
bankruptcy.
Tilton made the comments following a news conference to announce that the Star Alliance, which includes United
and 15 other carriers, had voted to include US Airways Group Inc. as a member.
Last Updated: May 31, 2003 17:33 EDT
Guarantee Application, CEO
Says
May 31 (Bloomberg) -- United Airlines is revising its
application for a $1.8 billion U.S. government loan
guarantee in an effort to emerge from bankruptcy
protection, Chief Executive Glenn Tilton said.
``We''re actively supplementing the application,''''
Tilton told reporters following a news conference in
Washington. ``We are in the process of doing it.''''
UAL Corp.''s United filed the airline industry''s largest
bankruptcy Dec. 9, five days after a U.S.
government board failed to approve the carrier''s
application for a $1.8 billion loan guarantee. The
board''s executive director said at the time United
would be allowed to submit a new plan as part of
Chapter 11 restructuring.
United will take a new business plan to its board of
directors in June and meet with a creditors''
committee, Tilton said. After getting reaction to the
plan, United will submit the revised application to
the Air Transportation Stabilization Board, he said.
The board was set up under a law enacted 11 days
after the Sept. 11 attacks to administer loan
guarantees to help carriers recover from losses
related to the terrorist attacks. The board on Dec. 4
decided United''s application was ``not financially
sound.''''
Several items will be different in the new application,
Tilton said. The revised application will include $2.5
billion in employee savings, while the original proposal had $900 million in labor concessions, he said.
Tilton said United is getting ``significant interest'''' from debt and equity markets for bankruptcy exit financing,
though he didn''t elaborate on details.
Early 2004
He said a case can be made for emerging early enough to gain revenue from the busy travel season in early
2004, though no final decision has been made.
``There''s no precise time frame for exiting,'''' Tilton said. ``We have a lot of options.''''
Tilton told employees this month the company may be able to come out of Chapter 11 sooner than expected
because it''s making progress in reducing costs. UAL had said it would take until mid- 2004 to conclude its
bankruptcy.
Tilton made the comments following a news conference to announce that the Star Alliance, which includes United
and 15 other carriers, had voted to include US Airways Group Inc. as a member.
Last Updated: May 31, 2003 17:33 EDT
Piney Bob, first let me say that I am sorry on behalf of UAL for what sounds like a bad experience you had flying with us. No excuses, you and every other passenger should expect and deserve good value for money, and when we screw it up there should be more than a token attempt to make it right. I think you will find UAL HAS improved in every catagory. I hope as a US frequent flyer UAL will have an opportunity to earn your business again with the code share and STAR alliance choices that will be very attractive to folks like yourself.
UAL is transforming itself, lots of work to do, but despite what you read by some less informed press and even less informed experts on this and other fourms, the company is doing many things right.While this has been difficult for employees, it has also served as a wakeup call. In response to Chip Munns misguided and transparent motives, I stated last week that UAL has accomplished much but little has reached the light of day, in particular, we do have a POR, exit financing commitments, the lowest costs of any network carrier,still the best route system of any airline,and while the company's financial results have been impacted by SARS and the war, what is not reported is that the company is writting off as much as possible, depreciation of 1.5 billion a year. When you consider that number alone represents 4+ million a day, 120 million a month in reported losses, combined with 200+ million a month in labor savings, plus 70 million a month in lease savings, that has just kicked in, well I think you begin to see a clearer picture of UALs future. There continues to be risk, God willing no terrorist events and a improving economy, a credable response to the low cost producers, UAL will emerge from BK as a very lean, fierce competitor. The rest of the industry knows this and has a vested interest in seeing that we do not succeed. I sincerly believe that will not happen.
Hope to see you on a United flight in the future. In the comming weeks you will see a huge advertising campaign that hopefully will communicate the above message. And more details about the exit stratagy like the story below.
All the best!
Reuters
UAL Moves to Shore Up Loan Guarantee Bid
Saturday May 31, 5:09 pm ET
By John Crawley
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - United Airlines (OTC BB:UALAQ.OB - News) chief executive Glenn Tilton (News) said on Saturday he was firming up the carrier's $1.8 billion federal loan guarantee bid around a plan that would rely on substantial cost savings and several strategies to boost revenue and capture business travel.
ADVERTISEMENT
Speaking with reporters at an industry event, Tilton also said he would not be pushed into setting a date for exiting Chapter 11 protection. He noted that a separate low-cost carrier remains an option but a potentially less competitive one, since the company was unable to secure key labor agreements it felt were necessary to maximize efficiency.
"We have to find a competitive response that works for United with respect to low-cost traffic, not necessarily low-cost carriers per se," Tilton said.
Nevertheless, he said United is sharply focused on winning back premium customers who have deserted big airlines in droves since mid-2001. "We're going to make sure we continue to focus on the core of United's passengers -- that is the business traveler."
The company's retooled application for loan guarantee assistance would include $2.5 billion in labor concessions and related work rule savings over the next six years; close to $700 million a year in savings from renegotiated aircraft leases and other mortgages that are close to being finalized, and a new revenue outlook, Tilton said.
Still to be determined as part of United's recovery plan is the amount of Chapter 11 exit financing and who will supply it, as well as the scope of a low-cost operation, and a final lineup of regional carriers.
Tilton would not identify parties that have expressed interest in providing exit financing.
United plans to submit a business plan to creditors and lenders in the early part of June and will then file a formal restructuring proposal with the U.S. bankruptcy court in Chicago later this year -- probably in the early fall.
Tilton said he is working closely with the government's Air Transportation Stabilization Board to replace those aspects of the company's original loan guarantee bid -- rejected as inadequate in December -- with new figures.
While promoting the economic merits of exiting bankruptcy at the start of the spring travel season next year, Tilton would not yield on whether United would emerge at that time.
"We want to exit Chapter 11 after we are sure there is precious little value left on the table," he said. "My plan is to sweep the table of all the benefits available to us rather than be expedient."
United reported last week that it sustained a $375 million net loss for April as demand weakened because of the war in Iraq and the SARS virus that has hurt Asia travel. That followed a $1.3 billion loss in the first quarter.
UAL is transforming itself, lots of work to do, but despite what you read by some less informed press and even less informed experts on this and other fourms, the company is doing many things right.While this has been difficult for employees, it has also served as a wakeup call. In response to Chip Munns misguided and transparent motives, I stated last week that UAL has accomplished much but little has reached the light of day, in particular, we do have a POR, exit financing commitments, the lowest costs of any network carrier,still the best route system of any airline,and while the company's financial results have been impacted by SARS and the war, what is not reported is that the company is writting off as much as possible, depreciation of 1.5 billion a year. When you consider that number alone represents 4+ million a day, 120 million a month in reported losses, combined with 200+ million a month in labor savings, plus 70 million a month in lease savings, that has just kicked in, well I think you begin to see a clearer picture of UALs future. There continues to be risk, God willing no terrorist events and a improving economy, a credable response to the low cost producers, UAL will emerge from BK as a very lean, fierce competitor. The rest of the industry knows this and has a vested interest in seeing that we do not succeed. I sincerly believe that will not happen.
Hope to see you on a United flight in the future. In the comming weeks you will see a huge advertising campaign that hopefully will communicate the above message. And more details about the exit stratagy like the story below.
All the best!
Reuters
UAL Moves to Shore Up Loan Guarantee Bid
Saturday May 31, 5:09 pm ET
By John Crawley
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - United Airlines (OTC BB:UALAQ.OB - News) chief executive Glenn Tilton (News) said on Saturday he was firming up the carrier's $1.8 billion federal loan guarantee bid around a plan that would rely on substantial cost savings and several strategies to boost revenue and capture business travel.
ADVERTISEMENT
Speaking with reporters at an industry event, Tilton also said he would not be pushed into setting a date for exiting Chapter 11 protection. He noted that a separate low-cost carrier remains an option but a potentially less competitive one, since the company was unable to secure key labor agreements it felt were necessary to maximize efficiency.
"We have to find a competitive response that works for United with respect to low-cost traffic, not necessarily low-cost carriers per se," Tilton said.
Nevertheless, he said United is sharply focused on winning back premium customers who have deserted big airlines in droves since mid-2001. "We're going to make sure we continue to focus on the core of United's passengers -- that is the business traveler."
The company's retooled application for loan guarantee assistance would include $2.5 billion in labor concessions and related work rule savings over the next six years; close to $700 million a year in savings from renegotiated aircraft leases and other mortgages that are close to being finalized, and a new revenue outlook, Tilton said.
Still to be determined as part of United's recovery plan is the amount of Chapter 11 exit financing and who will supply it, as well as the scope of a low-cost operation, and a final lineup of regional carriers.
Tilton would not identify parties that have expressed interest in providing exit financing.
United plans to submit a business plan to creditors and lenders in the early part of June and will then file a formal restructuring proposal with the U.S. bankruptcy court in Chicago later this year -- probably in the early fall.
Tilton said he is working closely with the government's Air Transportation Stabilization Board to replace those aspects of the company's original loan guarantee bid -- rejected as inadequate in December -- with new figures.
While promoting the economic merits of exiting bankruptcy at the start of the spring travel season next year, Tilton would not yield on whether United would emerge at that time.
"We want to exit Chapter 11 after we are sure there is precious little value left on the table," he said. "My plan is to sweep the table of all the benefits available to us rather than be expedient."
United reported last week that it sustained a $375 million net loss for April as demand weakened because of the war in Iraq and the SARS virus that has hurt Asia travel. That followed a $1.3 billion loss in the first quarter.
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On 6/1/2003 12:07:42 AM PineyBob wrote:
Well Busdrvr,
you visit the US board all full of yourself and venom directed at me with your air of superority. You tell us that you are "in the know" so enlighten us please. Help someone who doesn't eat, drink, sleep & breathe UA understand what's really going on.
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On 6/1/2003 12:07:42 AM PineyBob wrote:
Well Busdrvr,
you visit the US board all full of yourself and venom directed at me with your air of superority. You tell us that you are "in the know" so enlighten us please. Help someone who doesn't eat, drink, sleep & breathe UA understand what's really going on.
----------------
Bob, any comments to YOU were preceded by a venomous attack by you against what I know to be the best airline in the industry. I'm hopeful for the future and also hope that the two industry leaders in performance, customer satisfaction and employee satisfaction in the years to come are U and UAL. There is a plan. It does change. What is it you want to know? Capt Ron's post is about as specific as you'll get. I can't tell you what cities will be added, or what jets will eventually make up the fleet (even Glenn can't now that we are considering replacing some 777 flying with 747-400 flying. With the new lease and labor rates, they suddenly got much more economical to use). Suffice it to say that in the future, I want to see your tail sitting in a UAL FC seat (FF of course
PS, what in my last post was attacking to you. I'm extending my hand, don't bite it!!
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On 6/1/2003 3:24:10 AM PineyBob wrote:
"Frankly I am concerned about my perception of infighting at high levels within UA. That stuff can be poison to a workforce. Then all of the positive stuff you did to get you to this point will self destruct and folks like me will take it in the shorts again due to a lousy attitude."
Don''t be concerned about any infighting involving Brace or Hacker. "Most" employees don''t think much of them and would cry too many tears if they left in disgrace. The smartest thing management did post 911 was get out of our way operationally, and let us set the standard for the industry. The cutbacks we''ve endured due to financial difficulties have been painful, but we continue to excel. I think we all want to see company success. With the new payrates, you frankly HAVE to be an optimist to stick around. The pesimist are now at Mickey D''s.
"US gets the customer service side of the business side better than most if not all of the carriers. AA I just don''t use! not for a reason other than PHL is not their strong suit. I will tell you I signed up for a MP account, so we''ll see!"
Glad to hear it. when I''m not on UAL, my top two choices are now U and DAL for safety and CS.
----------------
On 6/1/2003 3:24:10 AM PineyBob wrote:
"Frankly I am concerned about my perception of infighting at high levels within UA. That stuff can be poison to a workforce. Then all of the positive stuff you did to get you to this point will self destruct and folks like me will take it in the shorts again due to a lousy attitude."
Don''t be concerned about any infighting involving Brace or Hacker. "Most" employees don''t think much of them and would cry too many tears if they left in disgrace. The smartest thing management did post 911 was get out of our way operationally, and let us set the standard for the industry. The cutbacks we''ve endured due to financial difficulties have been painful, but we continue to excel. I think we all want to see company success. With the new payrates, you frankly HAVE to be an optimist to stick around. The pesimist are now at Mickey D''s.
"US gets the customer service side of the business side better than most if not all of the carriers. AA I just don''t use! not for a reason other than PHL is not their strong suit. I will tell you I signed up for a MP account, so we''ll see!"
Glad to hear it. when I''m not on UAL, my top two choices are now U and DAL for safety and CS.
----------------
