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Ufau - United Flight Attendant Union

spacewaitress

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http://www.ufau.org/

It would be nice to know what, why, how and what the agenda is here.

How does one blindly offer support ...especially money...without knowing anything up front? Sorta like a stealth candidate...spoiler?

Where's the information on this organization? Do they really expect anyone to offer anything in terms of time or money without any information? Dumb!

Paul
 
spacewaitress said:
http://www.ufau.org/

It would be nice to know what, why, how and what the agenda is here.

How does one blindly offer support ...especially money...without knowing anything up front? Sorta like a stealth candidate...spoiler?

Where's the information on this organization? Do they really expect anyone to offer anything in terms of time or money without any information? Dumb!

Paul
The "agenda" seems to be getting UA F/As out of the grip of AFA, which over the past few years seems to be moving in a direction contrary to our interests.

I for one am interested in hearing what they have to say and learning more about them.

However, I will not be one of the people sending them money at this point.
 
The only solid positive about going to a new union would be not having to deal with integration issues if UA and US were to merge. Since the chance of a full-on merger are slim to none, I'm really not concerned with any more drama right now! AFA has deep pockets with their recent merger and they have long-standing relationships with gov't officials. Those two are BIG positives that a new start-up union could not replicate easily!

I am interested in seeing more about this new union but as the thought of a merger disappears so does my enthusiasm in dumping AFA. Before we see a merger between UA/US we'll see a "fire sale" of US' assets. (July deadline for a profit... ha! That will take a miracle!)

FA4UA
 
Maybe you guys should ask some NWA F/A's how they are doing since they went to the PFAA. Might be some interesting info/feedback to be gleaned there?
 
FA4UA said:
The only solid positive about going to a new union would be not having to deal with integration issues if UA and US were to merge.
I could be wrong, but any merger language would have to be negotiated in a new contract, which, I assume, we would have to negotiate anew with a new union.

If that is how things would turn out, I would prefer keeping the current contract. There is no way, in my opinion, that we would get anything near as "good" as we've got it now.

It seems to me that the company would come after UFAU with both barrels...and any merger language would come at a hefty price. Everything would be on the table once again...not to mention our scope clause and the job protections we currently have because of it, such as they are.

If anyone thinks things would get better with a new union, I'd have to say that's pretty naive, if not stupid. The status quo is the best thing we have going for us right now.

Opening up our contract again would be suicide. And as far as merger with another airline under those circumstances the company would just do whatever they damn well wanted...they do it under the present contract anyway!!
 
spacewaitress said:
I could be wrong, but any merger language would have to be negotiated in a new contract, which, I assume, we would have to negotiate anew with a new union.

If that is how things would turn out, I would prefer keeping the current contract. There is no way, in my opinion, that we would get anything near as "good" as we've got it now.

It seems to me that the company would come after UFAU with both barrels...and any merger language would come at a hefty price. Everything would be on the table once again...not to mention our scope clause and the job protections we currently have because of it, such as they are.

If anyone thinks things would get better with a new union, I'd have to say that's pretty naive, if not stupid. The status quo is the best thing we have going for us right now.

Opening up our contract again would be suicide. And as far as merger with another airline under those circumstances the company would just do whatever they damn well wanted...they do it under the present contract anyway!!
I think you have some inaccurate information.

First, there is no "merger language" in our current contract, if I am understanding you correctly. If not, what language are you referring to specifically? (Just a section number is enough and I will go look it up myself-- no need to quote an entire contract section.)

Second, it seems as if you are under the impression that if we change unions, our contract somehow dies with AFA. This is not correct (and I apologize if I am misunderstanding you). Should a new union come in, they would simply take over the administration of the current collective bargaining agreement, which doesn't become amendable until 2009.
 
If you're confused as to why there is so much interest in changing union's....read below: This man is the former MEC RSV Chair. Very Sad that this is what has become of our union. It's long but explains a lot 🙁

Pat Friend
International President
Association of Flight Attendants
1275 K Street, NW
5th Floor
Washington, DC 20005


Dear Pat:

Though I am currently out enjoying life on voluntary furlough, I am moved to drop in on my UAL life for a moment. It is with great sadness that I feel compelled to share with you my journey from being a supporter of AFA only a year ago, to now supporting a movement for independent representation at UAL.

As you may know, I have been active in AFA since the moment I came off of my initial new hire probation. Though my work in that time has been almost exclusively with the Reserve Committee, and though others are more familiar with the inner workings of AFA than I, I was fortunate to have the opportunity over the years to learn at least something about how AFA works on the local, MEC, and international levels.

It goes without saying that within a diverse group made up of thousands of intelligent and creative people all over the globe, there will be disagreements as to the best way to conduct business and accomplish our common goals. I did not always agree with decisions made or positions taken at the various levels of AFA, but I recognized that you can’t make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Overall I felt that I was better off as a UAL F/A with AFA than without. Moreover, I spent much time and energy trying to represent AFA in as positive a light as possible to disaffected UAL F/As. I spoke out against the FAIR effort several years ago.

The Delta organizing campaign was the first clear indication to me that something was wrong. Though personally I initially supported the goal of organizing, the way the DL campaign was handled came to represent to me the disconnect between UAL AFA members and AFA leadership. I understand the BOD had made the decision to start the campaign. However, we continued to doggedly pursue the effort long after it became clear that DL F/As did not want us and after many UAL F/As were clearly and loudly voicing their displeasure with it. By the end, it seemed that AFA leadership was continuing the campaign for purely personal reasons, despite its obvious futility and opposition from a large segment of the membership. To me it was a warning sign.


Then 9/11 happened and as we all know, the world, and our priorities, changed. I felt very fortunate that here at UAL we have had the leadership of Xxxx Xxxxxxxxxxx, Xxxxx XxXxxxxx, and Xxxxxxx Xxxxxx in the aftermath of 9/11. I cannot think of a more capable leader who could have done a better job of guiding us through the storminess of the past couple of years than Greg. Of course the bankruptcy and concessions were (and are) not pleasant. But it was clear to me that we would have been much worse off were it not for the efforts of the MEC officers and Xxxxxx Xxxxxx, Xxxxxx Xxxxxx, and Xxxxx Xxxxxx negotiating on our behalf. I tried to express this to other UAL F/As who were less than happy with the events going on around us.

On the local level, as a Council 21 member, I supported Xxxxxxx Xxx's campaign and was glad he became my LECP. Though I didn’t always agree with how he presented his message, he was saying things that needed to be said in an articulate manner and was accurately voicing what I believe to be a majority of UAL F/As were, and are, feeling. Not only that, but he was doing it in an extremely hostile environment, facing personal attacks and just plain rudeness from not only the BOD and International Office, but even from his colleagues on the UAL MEC. All for speaking his mind and representing his members. Though I was disappointed, I was not really surprised at the reception he was getting. And I felt that with excellent leadership at both the MEC and LEC levels representing my interests, I could overlook the larger issue of the fatal structural flaws within AFA and the detriment it causes UAL F/As (which I won’t get into here).

But then came the CWA merger. Though I recognized the benefits of being part of a larger union, I was also worried about how this would be yet another step away from our union’s leadership listening to its members. It suffices to say that reasonable people could disagree on the pros and cons of the CWA merger. I am sure CWA is a fine organization. But what disgusted me was the way the International Office handled the situation. Mailings and other communications that can only be described as one-sided propaganda bombarded us regularly. The message was that you had to be a complete ignorant boob to be against the merger. It was presented that there was simply no other realistic option, despite the alternative suggestions coming from some members of the UAL MEC. When the UAL MEC officers had the nerve to represent the sentiment at UAL by publicly announcing they opposed the merge, I am sure the usual suspects made their lives sufficiently uncomfortable.

Then came the actual vote. It epitomized what is wrong with the structure of AFA to the detriment of UAL F/As despite our making up over 50% of the organization. Though the vast majority of UAL F/As who bothered to vote at all voted against the merger, that didn’t matter. The largest and greatest flight attendant union in the world, one that was started because of the blood, sweat, and tears of UAL F/As decades ago, was being made extinct overnight because F/As at OTHER airlines wanted it that way. And I won’t even bother to go into the issue of voting irregularities.

Like the Delta organizing campaign, the CWA merger came to represent yet another example of how the goals and interests of the BOD, International Office, and other AFA carriers are almost completely divergent from the interests of UAL F/As.

But now, the final straw. In short order I went from disgust about how the CWA merger was handled, to outright anger as you tried (apparently successfully) to silence my duly elected local representative, Xxxxxxx Xxx, because he had the audacity to represent my views too articulately. They say the pen is mightier than the sword and your overreaction to a NEWSLETTER, for goodness’ sake, proves it. I don’t mean to single you out since you were not the only one to have this overreaction. I have also been disappointed by how other BOD and UAL MEC members have reacted to The Plane Truth. A healthy organization needs dissent and competing points of view to remain vibrant and viable. Sometimes tough questions need to be asked and motives need to be examined. Efforts to silence people who don’t tow the party line show at least weakness and vulnerability, if not an actual attempt to hide something. But to take aggressive steps to remove MY LECP, who has very strong support and who has done nothing wrong except disagree with some of your positions, is simply over the line. You, and others, seem to miss the point that Michael did not somehow create or cause the discontent you are now seeing. He only verbalized it.

It is now clear to me that the AFA International Office, or CWA/AFA (whatever the current administrative status of the merge is), no longer represents the best interests of UAL F/As. I now believe the organization is too broken to bother trying to fix from within. As such, I am now supporting the efforts of the UFAU movement.

Congratulations, Pat. You may finally have motivated UAL F/As to get off their duffs and get involved. I am sure the UFAU leaders are appreciative of your work over the past few months– you have made their jobs that much easier.


Sincerely,

Xxxxx Xxxx
UAL Council 21
 
Bear96 wrote;

First, there is no "merger language" in our current contract, if I am understanding you correctly. If not, what language are you referring to specifically? (Just a section number is enough and I will go look it up myself-- no need to quote an entire contract section.)


Actually, there is merger language in our contract, but it is not in the "contract." The information pertaining to mergers can be found in the Constitutional and By-Laws of the AFA. This is a form of contract that governs all AFA members. In this booklet (which you can get from your local AFA office) it specifically talks about mergers. It also clearly states that if an AFA carrier buys, merges, and or aquires any other AFA carrier, then the carriers flight attendants being bought, acquired and or merged will keep and maintain their seniority. This is nothing new. If you do not have a copy of this, it is definitly worth having.
 
trollydolly said:
Actually, there is merger language in our contract, but it is not in the "contract." The information pertaining to mergers can be found in the Constitutional and By-Laws of the AFA. This is a form of contract that governs all AFA members. In this booklet (which you can get from your local AFA office) it specifically talks about mergers. It also clearly states that if an AFA carrier buys, merges, and or aquires any other AFA carrier, then the carriers flight attendants being bought, acquired and or merged will keep and maintain their seniority. This is nothing new. If you do not have a copy of this, it is definitly worth having.
🙄 Yes, trollydolly, that was my point.

I know exactly where the merger language is in the C&B (and I have a copy and am familiar with the AFA seniority merger policy). But spacewaitress was making it sound like we would have to renegotiate the merger language with UAL. We don't negotiate C&B language with UAL.

So I think spacewaitress was spreading inaccurate information. I don't know if it was intentional or not (and I am not accusing her of doing it intentionally) but I was trying to get some clarification just in case there was some little contractual reference to a merger within the contract (which I am very familiar with) that I happened to not be aware of. I don't think there is, but I was just trying to be sure.

The big question is of course, if a new union comes in at UAL, and we merger with an AFA carrier (or even with a non-AFA carrier), how will the seniority merger be handled? THAT'S what I want to know.
 
Bear96 said:
So I think spacewaitress was spreading inaccurate information. I don't know if it was intentional or not (and I am not accusing her of doing it intentionally)
That's good to hear, because you will notice in my post the phrases..."I could be wrong...I assume...If that is how things would turn out..." I'm not spreading anything. Just stating my opinions and assumptions to the best of my knowledge.

Still, for me to support any effort all the t-s would need to be crossed and the i-s dotted. The only information on the website is an appeal for help and money. Emma Donnelly has been at this for several years now (and I respect her passion)...previously with FAIR. At that time I was curious, but there was no real organization or information and an incredible naivete among those on the line who were advocating FAIR. No one whom I spoke to had any understanding and very little concern for what I see as the huge infrastructure that would be needed (local councils, committees, representatives, etc) in order to transition to a new union. Not one person seemed concerned with the need for staffed local committees or any of the other grunt work necessary to continue the work on the local level. There seemed to be a lot of resentment towards AFA but very little substance and, it seemed to me, no concern or information about how FAIR would be representing the membership. There was only concern for throwing AFA out. That seemed folly and naive to me.

If that is where this new effort stands today, then I certainly wouldn't support it. If people are passionate about it then they need to offer a real alternative...and not just a lot of counterproductive resentment.

I'll reserve my judgement, but if history is any indication, UFAU will have a lot to work to do in order to show there is a substantive organization capable of meeting the needs of its membership.
 
I agree 100%.

Though I think things are different and much more conducive to such an effort than they were a few years ago with FAIR, I too will reserve judgment until more details are forthcoming.
 
The UFAU campaign launch is coming very soon. All of the issues discussed above will be addressed in detail in the campaign. You will be pleased to learn the realities of what we will not have to give up or change in the transition to UFAU. You will also be pleased to learn how one of the major benefits of UFAU over AFA is that anything with UFAU can be changed or directed by the membership. What a novel concept!

UFAU needs F/A contact info. Those who sign up on www.UFAU.org will receive special newsletters with FAQ's, detailed analyses and comparisons, and responses to submitted questions.

Please don't miss out. You on this bulletin board are among the most informed of our flying partners. Please encorage your friends and others to be equally informed about the coming changes in our union representation!
 

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