Unions Getting More Support For Aid Assistance

[swamt]

This is good news. Not only are the airlines backing the unions on their request (A4A) Southwest, Delta, American, United, Alaska and others are now also speaking in support of some help to get thru to March 2021. There are also now even more support from congress and with some very key players in congress now supporting and encouraging all others to sign on with support. I hope they get this done to avoid layoffs for this year...

https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa...W46VVM&usg=AFQjCNEyLiaFVtayGNtN99iBBZzm2eqORg

 

[eolesen]

Doing so would effectively screw over everyone who already took a voluntary exit.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Doing so would effectively screw over everyone who already took a voluntary exit.

Ah, OH WELL Eric, Life's a Bittch !!

 

[JREwing]

I'd rather see 5% get screwed than 95%. And of the very few I worked with that took the early out in April, they had been waiting for 5 years to get our contract done so they could get a buyout, so I wouldn't feel sorry for any of them.

 

[swamt]

Doing so would effectively screw over everyone who already took a voluntary exit.

Explain how this would screw over everyone that has taken a voluntary exit. And by exit are saying retired, early out, buyout and perm. leaving?

 

[robbedagain]

Doing so would effectively screw over everyone who already took a voluntary exit.

I disagree here. With NY CT n NJ issuing travel advisory n restriction n over half the country having upticks in cases I feel that it will get to where airlines may offer more leaves and potentially worse. 2nd qtr losses by UA n DL during a time just a yr ago was huge profits just doesn't bold well n till there a vaccine available we are in turbulent times

 

[swamt]

He still hasn't answered my post asking just how does it screw the employees that already took it. Posted last Sat. and he never did answer.

 

[robbedagain]

He still hasn't answered my post asking just how does it screw the employees that already took it. Posted last Sat. and he never did answer.

He cant bec as far as I know it wont have an affect on BBC those that took it.

BTW swamt saw where SWA lost 915 million n they wont have to lay of . That's good news at the least

 

[eolesen]

Gee guys, sorry for not living 24/7 on these boards and answering your questions in realtime....

A good number of people who took voluntary exits agreed to get X months of pay at Y% and made those decisions based on the threat of a layoff on 01-Oct-2020. Sure, some made the decision based on other job offers or a desire to retire, but the data I've seen shows that a lot of lower seniority people who jumped on the exit offers (e.g. people with less than ten years).

If that layoff threat moves now to 31-Mar-2021, those people who knew they were at risk possibly gave up six months of full benefits and whatever their pay was going to be. Likewise, those who chose to retire and make room for someone younger to say also gave up six months of full benefits and whatever their pay would have been.

So..... SWAAmt or Robbed... please explain to me how walking away from half a years pay and benefits six months early isn't screwing them over?....


Further, I'd say an extension of the no-layoff clauses may also screw over active employees --- many of us were forced into reduced workweek schedules (effectively a 20% paycut if not more that complied with CARES language) thru October 2020. Our expectation was that reduced workweeks end once layoffs are allowed on 01-Oct-2020 and we get our 20% pay restored. If airlines are forced to defer layoffs and keep payroll as-is, I'd be willing to bet those "temporary" work schedule reductions get extended for another six months, and that's quite a hit.

 

[swamt]

He cant bec as far as I know it wont have an affect on BBC those that took it.

BTW swamt saw where SWA lost 915 million n they wont have to lay of . That's good news at the least

Yes sir.
Very good news indeed. No layoffs thru end of year. Company will reduce size slightly less than the employees leaving and on the leaves. He said that number is 25% smaller in size by years end. Hoping the no layoffs will hold strong even after the new year as long as the passengers start returning to the skies again. In this interview below he seems to be very positive about Southwest's return but also admits it will take some time, just not as quickly as he originally hoped for. He's also extremely happy how we have cut the cash burn so far.
The employees have stepped up to the plate. Now hopefully Southwest can lure the travel back and hopefully slowly rebuild ASAP and call back the folks on leave. Some are already expecting to be called back early next year, maybe by spring.

A tad bit lengthy on the interview video but he does cover a bunch of issues overall. I really like his confidence. He always celebrates us employees, he deserves to celebrate himself for the cash he has stored away, the financing he has found and attained, and just how well he has ran Southwest and treated the employees. I still pray that he can hold on to the record of NO layoffs...

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...938.html/RK=2/RS=z._4pGvRZSlsupCiPzo_i5UtQvY-

 

[swamt]

Gee guys, sorry for not living 24/7 on these boards and answering your questions in realtime....

A good number of people who took voluntary exits agreed to get X months of pay at Y% and made those decisions based on the threat of a layoff on 01-Oct-2020. Sure, some made the decision based on other job offers or a desire to retire, but the data I've seen shows that a lot of lower seniority people who jumped on the exit offers (e.g. people with less than ten years).

If that layoff threat moves now to 31-Mar-2021, those people who knew they were at risk possibly gave up six months of full benefits and whatever their pay was going to be. Likewise, those who chose to retire and make room for someone younger to say also gave up six months of full benefits and whatever their pay would have been.

So..... SWAAmt or Robbed... please explain to me how walking away from half a years pay and benefits six months early isn't screwing them over?....


Further, I'd say an extension of the no-layoff clauses may also screw over active employees --- many of us were forced into reduced workweek schedules (effectively a 20% paycut if not more that complied with CARES language) thru October 2020. Our expectation was that reduced workweeks end once layoffs are allowed on 01-Oct-2020 and we get our 20% pay restored. If airlines are forced to defer layoffs and keep payroll as-is, I'd be willing to bet those "temporary" work schedule reductions get extended for another six months, and that's quite a hit.

Southwest never threatened to layoff anyone. If anything, they said they will do whatever it takes to avoid any layoffs. Even bring in more maint work if need be for the mechanics was discussed. Although Southwest never threatened with layoffs, yes, true that the possibility was there and on the minds of some folks which is why we see the almost 1/3rd of employees taking advantage of the offers. It is the best offers I have seen out there so far and at the highest pay to stay home in which Southwest said they too will take the hit to entice as many employees as possible so they wouldn't have to break their no layoff record.
Putting off layoffs until March? I don't think so. Southwest could run for 2 years straight as is with the cash it has. And now that 28% plus employees have taken the leaves and outs, it could possibly go a bit further. Just the employees on leaves and outs will save 400 million in 4th Q, that's huge savings alone right there.
I understand your thoughts of how you think some will get screwed, but in the long run if they take the years pay they didn't lose anything. The medical coverage being paid for by the co. yea sure they lose out on that, but if they stay and don't take the years salary they will lose that. In comparo still missing out on the 6 months pay of the years salary. Pretty sure they will all be ok with the medical as most have plenty of sick to trade in to get them to 65. Otherwise, they wouldn't take it if it matter that much to them IMO.
You asked how walking away from 6 months pay (by staying at work) and 6 months paid medical by leaving early isn't getting screwed? My answer is they would miss out on the full years salary paid up front and able to retire now and stop worrying about ever being laid off and leaving on their own terms the way they want to. I would take that any day over 6 more months of pay (and still working) and 6 more months of medical coverage (which by the way is paid by employee while still working, partially) on the early out it is paid in full by company with the cobra attached options. So a full years salary against 6 months longer working and paying for medical? I would take the EO in a heartbeat if I were in the position (age) to do so. Wouldn't even care about the 6 more months of working and med coverage. That's why I don't see it as getting screwed, I see it as a better way to NOW. I guess just two different ways of looking at it.

 

[swamt]

Just saw this come across the news this morning. Some good news for our industry. The majority of the House backs and signed off on the extension of the assistance for passenger airlines and for all the way until March, not just to end of year. Now lets see how is gets the rest of the way thru, and what will all the airlines say or do...

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...nes.html/RK=2/RS=ci_xGJENzSXLnvY2yx_fzD4Heao-

 

[eolesen]

You asked how walking away from 6 months pay (by staying at work) and 6 months paid medical by leaving early isn't getting screwed? My answer is they would miss out on the full years salary paid up front and able to retire now and stop worrying about ever being laid off and leaving on their own terms the way they want to. I would take that any day over 6 more months of pay (and still working) and 6 more months of medical coverage (which by the way is paid by employee while still working, partially) on the early out it is paid in full by company with the cobra attached options. So a full years salary against 6 months longer working and paying for medical? I would take the EO in a heartbeat if I were in the position (age) to do so. Wouldn't even care about the 6 more months of working and med coverage. That's why I don't see it as getting screwed, I see it as a better way to NOW. I guess just two different ways of looking at it.

I don't know if every workgroup is eligible for the 12 months of pay+medical -- did it include management and non-union positions? At some airlines, the full pay and benefits are as little as six weeks.

 

[swamt]

I don't know if every workgroup is eligible for the 12 months of pay+medical -- did it include management and non-union positions? At some airlines, the full pay and benefits are as little as six weeks.

At Southwest they are as long as they are 10 years plus and meet the age+employed time limits, they will also keep lifetime retiree flight benefits too. Now if under 10 years and not at age and time limits I believe the offer is 4 months pay, 4 years flight benefits, and don't remember what the medical part was for them.
We have a person at work with just under the 10 years, plenty of money with way more extra income coming in (a spouse inheritance, rather large) and he wouldn't take it due to the only 4 years of F/B's. We have all said with the money you got you don't need lifetime F/B's, go figure. We think it's his wife dictating when he will retire.
All employees will receive a full years salary rather contract or non contract.

 

[eolesen]

All employees will receive a full years salary rather contract or non contract.

OK, I'll amend my statement: changing the no-layoff date would screw over everyone except Southwest employees who took a voluntary package.

Saw an email yesterday where one of WN's competitors is going to be letting certain groups rescind their voluntary separations because of the uncertainty over when layoffs would be permissible. That would hint that their HR department agrees that changing the no-layoff date is screwing over those who agreed to leave based on the original 10/1 date...