United 2nd Quarter 2004 Financial Results

[Speedbird]

Well of course 320...that's it!

You've uncovered the real reason why the price of oil is up and airline employees are in financial trouble. The problem with liberals besides have only a feeble grasp of economic issues is that they want to have their cake (low oil prices) and eat it too (strict environmental controls on the exploration and refining of crude oil). If you want find a following for your GWB conspiracy theories why don't you post over at the moveon.org forum.

 

[TechBoy]

Please don't lump all us liberals in one pile. Environmental regulations have made opening new refineries difficult adn that is also driving up fuel prices. Exploration limits? Maybe that hurts a little, but ANWR and the Cal. coast wouldn't produce enough to really affect a world oil market of over 80M bpd. And while you are assigning blame, perhaps you can include unwillingness to raise fuel efficiency standards. A 20% increase in efficiency would swamp the effect of ANWR production. I generally favor market solutions to problems, but when the bulk of the world's oil reserves are in an unstable and hostile region, we may need to work a little harder on lowering our oil habit.

 

[Busdrvr]

Please don't lump all us liberals in one pile. Environmental regulations have made opening new refineries difficult adn that is also driving up fuel prices. Exploration limits? Maybe that hurts a little, but ANWR and the Cal. coast wouldn't produce enough to really affect a world oil market of over 80M bpd. And while you are assigning blame, perhaps you can include unwillingness to raise fuel efficiency standards. A 20% increase in efficiency would swamp the effect of ANWR production. I generally favor market solutions to problems, but when the bulk of the world's oil reserves are in an unstable and hostile region, we may need to work a little harder on lowering our oil habit.

[post="165331"][/post]​

ANWR wouldn't and Cal wouldn't produce enough to affect the world oil market?! Another thing liberals do, They smoke too much crack. One company, Yukos, who exports LESS than ANWR would produce alone, so much as threatens the temporary withdrawel of it's oil from the market and oil goes up a few bucks. Yet the addition of 2 million barrels of oil a day in RELIABLE production wouldn't affect prices.... That's a knee slapper.
The most comical aspect is that this is from the same liberal party mindset that criticized putting 1.5 million barrels of oil a WEEK into the SPR. So Kerry thinks THAT jacks up prices, but adding MORE oil PER DAY wouldn't lower them?
Oil conservation should start at the top. There is just something comical about a billionare with 7 MANSIONS, his OWN G-IV, a couple SUV's and a Big A$$ BOAT who has the audacity to then criticizes others for not "conserving enough energy". Course these are the same yahoo's who advocate wind power, but then pull a kindergarten level hissy fit when it's even suggested that it be done near their $20 million hideaway on the Vinyard.

 

[Borescope]

Do you find it interesting that Chevron made a $74B profit in 2Q?
Yes good ole GW is keeping his buddies protected while the airline employees subsidize big oil with more pay cuts!

Remember in November.

[post="165118"][/post]​

It's great for those of us who have stock in the oil sector.

VOTE GW in November

 

[jimntx]

Really? How about this report? http://www.rbs.co.uk/Group_Information/RBS...ds/oilprice.pdf
It was written March '04. While there have been negative events that have caused a spike in prices since then, I think that they're correct in the long term.
While it may be hard for you to believe, the current production capacity exceeds demand.

I quote from the opening paragraph of the report..."Our view of lower prices is
based on assumed lessening in macro-political uncertainty; difficulties in maintaining OPEC quotas in a high price environment; and increasing non-OPEC production. These factors represent the key upside and downside risks in the market." Even the RBS is assuming that there will be political stability in the Mideast this year and next--never has been, why now? They are also assuming that the political unrest in sub-Saharan Africa will abate sufficiently for production there to continue growing--never has, why now?

If you've got links to anyone forecasting oil to be $40+/barrel for the foreseeable future, please post them. However, I'd discount anyone who used the current (statistically abnormal) situation upon which to base their forecast.

Not a link, but Charlie Rose on PBS interviewed the chairman of ExxonMobil (not exactly your Mom and Pop operation) recently. The chairman said (and this is a direct quote) "We will never see gasoline at $1.50/gal again." If gasoline at the pump remains above $1.50/gal, I pretty sure that jet fuel is going to be proportionally just as high.

 

[TechBoy]

ANWR wouldn't and Cal wouldn't produce enough to affect the world oil market?! Another thing liberals do, They smoke too much crack. One company, Yukos, who exports LESS than ANWR would produce alone, so much as threatens the temporary withdrawel of it's oil from the market and oil goes up a few bucks. Yet the addition of 2 million barrels of oil a day in RELIABLE production wouldn't affect prices.... That's a knee slapper.
The most comical aspect is that this is from the same liberal party mindset that criticized putting 1.5 million barrels of oil a WEEK into the SPR. So Kerry thinks THAT jacks up prices, but adding MORE oil PER DAY wouldn't lower them?
Oil conservation should start at the top. There is just something comical about a billionare with 7 MANSIONS, his OWN G-IV, a couple SUV's and a Big A$$ BOAT who has the audacity to then criticizes others for not "conserving enough energy". Course these are the same yahoo's who advocate wind power, but then pull a kindergarten level hissy fit when it's even suggested that it be done near their $20 million hideaway on the Vinyard.

[post="166709"][/post]​

Talk about smoking crack. If you think that ANWR will produce 2m bbl a day, you have been hitting the crack pipe yourself. That is the high end of projections after a decade of developing the fields. Personally, I'm rather agnostic on the question, I was merely pointing out the fact that taking ideological views of things tend to crowd out relevant facts. Increasing fuel economy would have a much larger effect on oil markets.

I assume, Busdrvr, that you opposed the government intervening in the market to prop up UA and its overpaid pilots like a good conservative. Or do I detect a little inconsistency here?

 

[Segue]

If you all think you have the inside track on oil futures, I suggest you immediatly quite what you are doing now and become a day trader!! You can make more in a a week than you can in a year with an airline.

 

[Busdrvr]

Tech boy, RTFP. I said ANWR would PRODUCE more than Yukos EXPORTS. Median estimates indicate that a mature ANWR operation would produce in excess of 1.5 million barrels a Day. The over $2.0 billion represents Cal offshore and ANWR combined. USGA median estimates put CA, NPR-A (near Anwr) and ANWR conventionally retrievable oil reserves at nearly 30 billion barrels. That would double known US reserves. Additionally, vast quantities of NG are also estimated to be in those areas.

"I assume, Busdrvr, that you opposed the government intervening in the market to prop up UA and its overpaid pilots like a good conservative. Or do I detect a little inconsistency here?"

First, Pilots aren't overpaid. I'll compare my education, experience, and IQ vs pay equation to yours any day. I'll compare an Airline pilots time away from home, the dangers of the career, the higher cancer rates, the long term effects of jet lag, ect to yours any day. We have a temporary excess of pilots that is leading to lower wages and will likely result in a "brain drain" from the career. But on the "free market".

I want the government to quit meddeling in aviation. I want ticket taxes lowered from the over 25% rate they are at today. I want the government to charge all airlines the same price for access to US airspace. I want operators of G's and Lears to also pay those same fee's. And it would have been nice if the government had let the free market rule in the past. most industries have 3 big players. In the Airline industry, the government mandates inconvience for the sake of "competition" in refusing to allow industry consolidation in a way that would protect workers and investors. I want the DOT to quit playing Robin Hood. I want the DOJ to mind it's own business (FRNT wouldn't exist). Questions?

 

[C54Capt]

Busdrvr,

Good post, right up to the point you had to take a cheap-shot at Frontier. I'm sure that we can find lots of cases where regulation has benefited and harmed each carrier. But you only cite the carrier that you hate the most...sad.

 

[TechBoy]

Busdrvr,

I was just poking fun at pilot salaries. It's fairly clear that some pilots are overpaid and others are underpaid. I suppose that the case could be made that even accounting for my multiple degrees and highly specialized knowledge that I am grossly overpaid. However, there are less than 10 people qualified to do what I do, so I get paid a boatload to do it. That is the market.

Right now, there is a surplus of trained pilots. That means that salaries will fall, no matter what ALPA tries to do to suppress the market. (IIRC, you are a pro-ALPA guy. Surprising to see a conservative favoring unions, but to each his own.) And you are right, a some point the salaries fall enough that fewer people are attracted to the job and then salaries will start rising again. Just like any other job.

I tend to agree that the Feds have made a bit of a mess in aviation with too many taxes. But I'm not sure that I want to live in a country where the antitrust laws are not enforced either. A little control over free markets is appropriate in some situations.

As for the loan guarantees, I won't speak for you, but I'm constantly surprised how many conservatives hate government spending and interference until it comes to something that they benefit from. Then you get a different tune.