United Airlines Posts $1.3 Billion Loss

Busdrvr

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On 5/12/2003 2:33:31 PM spanky wrote:

Actually, Busdwvr, Mr. KC probably is use to having low fares with great service due to the number one carrier in MCI being Southwest Airlines. Fair prices, good dependable service, and loyalty to its costomers.

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Actually, KC is quite often "forced" to fly other carriers, despite SWA being the "#1 carrier" in KC. due to the "business model" that SWA employs, he can't get a ticket to a good number of places he goes. How many cities can he get to on SWA from MCI? Maybe that's why KC doesn't have near the level of high tech businesses, and didn't enjoy as much of an economic boom during the 90's that cities where UAL is king enjoyed. but hey, if you need to get to Texas!!!!

Ignorance is Bliss
 

Busdrvr

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On 5/12/2003 2:58:26 PM KCFlyer wrote:


"If you think Airlines SHOULD farm out heavy MX to cheap outside sources who pay UNSKILLED laborers much less to perform tasks that should be done by AMT''s, all to save a few bucks



Where did I say that? Southwest does, and their planes seem to be in pretty good shape."


Does FEAR FEAR FEAR ring a bell? I guess "good shape" is relative. If wheels and panels falling off in flight or receiving "repaired" jets with missriged flight controls or improperly assemled rudder accuators (VERY bad on Guppies) is what you consider "good shape" then more power to you. But if the cabin''s clean the jets ok Right?!


Ignorance is Bliss

6 in the morning to 3 in the afternoon!! that''s some lunch break!!
 

KCFlyer

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On 5/12/2003 7:39:21 PM Busdrvr wrote:


Those folks subsidize the schedule at most major airlines. those folks justify service to some communities that just wouldn't have service otherwise (you know, the ones SWA, FRNT, Valudeath ect don't serve). It's a simple proposition. There simply aren't enough folks willing to pay the average cost to justify the service. But there may be enough to justify service below cost, plus the occasional guy willing to pay any price, and the route stays.

Fine quote me some prices on UAL (mainline please - big jets are safer to me) from MCI to VPS, AVL and TRI (all cities I've had to fly to). PAtiently awaiting your reply.

The guy stops paying, the service stops, and since there isn't dependable air service to his little community (SWA ain't comming), he closes shop and moves his business to a city that does. How many communities have lost mainline service since the Sept 11 meltdown? How many of those cities did your beloved SWA decide to start serving?
Ohhh what a neat question - none...are you happy? But, how many employees did they furlough? How much in concessions did they ask for? Why are they in much better financial shape than the others? If my beloved Southwest wanted to start a bloodbath, they would have struck hard and fast in Denver, Pittsburgh, and even a handful of flights out of DFW. It wouldn't have been pretty. You should thank them for showing such restraint. And how many cities that you cite as UAL cities are really "Express" cities?

"Why did you not address the fact that I've spent almost $8,000 on air travel this year? That's a helluva lot of $99 flights (none were $99 BTW)."

County pay the bill?

Indirectly I suppose they did - it was paid for with money I got from my paycheck. And what difference does that make? I'm just Joe Leisure - bane of airline employees accross America. You obviously don't want my money, or you've sure got a funny way of saying you do - thanks to your "insights" on my work habits and your "knowledge" of my travel demands, you've pretty much insured that UAL will be my absolute LAST choice when it comes to air travel.

Never said you were lazy, you couldn't be with as much time as you spend posting, just pointed out that it appears the gubment (spelled with a B) ain't getting what they are paying for if you are constantly online during work hours. It just comical that you are getting so upset when someone calls your situation into question, but you have no qualms about attacking our jobs and employers.


Where oh where have I ever attacked your jobs? Your employers? Damn man, if anyone posted that "Management is right" even one year ago, most of y'all would have that snappy "Kool-Aid drinker" comeback. But today, just question the decision of managment to on their implementation of "selective screwing" of the passengers and the extension of that policy to the screwing of their workforce, and I might have well insulted your mother. What's the flavor they're serving these days? Sorry bus, but IMHO, you are giving the pilots of United a very bad name.
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Ignorance is Bliss
 

Busdrvr

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On 5/12/2003 7:15:55 PM KCFlyer wrote:


"And I notice that you failed to address ANY of my other points...What about the value a ticket on UAL vs a ticket on SWA?  What about this person who "demands" $99 coast to coast flights feeling like he got a fair deal paying a fare that would have been profitable for UAL - had they offered something like that and not tried to play the "let''s let them subsidize our loss leader" games. "

Sure, I''ll address it. UAL HAS started "value pricing" in ORD and DEN and ATA and FRNT are hurting BIG TIME FROM IT. But let me ask you this, what happens when SWA "sells out". lets imagine it''s on one of those pairings that doesn''t have 18 flights per day. How are you gonna get there? Lets say you have a meeting that you absolutely HAVE to be at. Pops up at the last minute. Missing it will cost you THOUSANDS in business. What''s it worth to you? Those folks subsidize the schedule at most major airlines. those folks justify service to some communities that just wouldn''t have service otherwise (you know, the ones SWA, FRNT, Valudeath ect don''t serve). It''s a simple proposition. There simply aren''t enough folks willing to pay the average cost to justify the service. But there may be enough to justify service below cost, plus the occasional guy willing to pay any price, and the route stays. The guy stops paying, the service stops, and since there isn''t dependable air service to his little community (SWA ain''t comming), he closes shop and moves his business to a city that does. How many communities have lost mainline service since the Sept 11 meltdown? How many of those cities did your beloved SWA decide to start serving?

"Why did you not address the fact that I''ve spent almost $8,000 on air travel this year?  That''s a helluva lot of $99 flights (none were $99 BTW)."

County pay the bill?


"Why would you rather put words in my mouth (your implications that I consider you all overpaid) and not address one other issue?  Instead, you''d rather make an ass out of yourself with your snide little comments about 9 hour lunch.   You continue with the "lazy assed gummint worker" comments.  I haven''t and I won''t refer to your occupation in less than glowing terms. "

Never said you were lazy, you couldn''t be with as much time as you spend posting, just pointed out that it appears the gubment (spelled with a B) ain''t getting what they are paying for if you are constantly online during work hours. It just comical that you are getting so upset when someone calls your situation into question, but you have no qualms about attacking our jobs and employers.


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Ignorance is Bliss
 

KCFlyer

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On 5/12/2003 3:16:26 PM Busdrvr wrote:



Does FEAR FEAR FEAR ring a bell?

I guess it does, but why not put it in context? RV4 was posting FEAR FEAR FEAR towards mechanics who may have leaned to voting "yes" to concessions. "Full pay to the last day" or something like that. Now, when UAL was in similar straits, were you backing those mechanics 100% when they balked at concessions? Bottom line, my FEAR FEAR FEAR comments were a comeback to RV4''s "Fear of bankruptcy" posts using remarkable similar language - only now he wants to scare his customers away by insinuating that outsourced maintenance is a safety threat. It hasn''t been at Southwest. . I don''t believe I read anything in my post that said anything about paying anyone less, unless those God given talents you possess as an airline pilot allow you to redefine Webster''s.

I guess "good shape" is relative. If wheels and panels falling off in flight or receiving "repaired" jets with missriged flight controls or improperly assemled rudder accuators (VERY bad on Guppies) is what you consider "good shape" then more power to you. But if the cabin''s clean the jets ok Right?!

Why must you bring Delta into this argument? Seems that they''ve had more wing flaps and wheels falling off than Southwest. Oh yeah, the RPM deal...expect more with more miles flown, right?


Ignorance is Bliss

6 in the morning to 3 in the afternoon!! that''s some lunch break!!

It''s after 7 now - still want those hours?

And I notice that you failed to address ANY of my other points...What about the value a ticket on UAL vs a ticket on SWA? What about this person who "demands" $99 coast to coast flights feeling like he got a fair deal paying a fare that would have been profitable for UAL - had they offered something like that and not tried to play the "let''s let them subsidize our loss leader" games.

Why did you not address the fact that I''ve spent almost $8,000 on air travel this year? That''s a helluva lot of $99 flights (none were $99 BTW).
Why would you rather put words in my mouth (your implications that I consider you all overpaid) and not address one other issue? Instead, you''d rather make an ass out of yourself with your snide little comments about 9 hour lunch. You continue with the "lazy assed gummint worker" comments. I haven''t and I won''t refer to your occupation in less than glowing terms.


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Fly

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On 5/12/2003 8:07:03 PM KCFlyer wrote:


I''ve been watching this back and forth stuff between you two........................(slaps your heads together) GET Over It!!!!!!!!!!!! oh BTW, if your on my flight, please don''t rehash this stuff......my eyes are strained from your eternal fight.



Bet if you met in real life, you two would be best buds....I can feel it. Agree to stop.
 

Busdrvr

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On 5/12/2003 8:07:03 PM KCFlyer wrote:


"Fine quote me some prices on UAL (mainline please - big jets are safer to me) from MCI to VPS, AVL and TRI (all cities I've had to fly to). PAtiently awaiting your reply."

OK, you asked for it. "Redneck riviara" huh? Bet you have your own table at "sammy's". I didn't bother to write the other side of the "rich guy" subsidized service. the other side is if to many pax are wooed away by lower fares at other carrier (maybe not even service from the same city, SWA pax are famous for driving hours sometimes to the nearest SWA airport), the service stops. that simple. BTW, what's the median income in VPS? Whats the median home value outside the "resort" areas? Wage growth in the 90's? 15 years ago, UAL served every state in the union, no more. Do you think it's just a coincidence that high tech employers typically cluster in certain cities? you think maybe there could be a correlation between which airlines are the big dog's in those cities? What's the median income in KC, where SWA is "King"? median home price? How does YOUR city compare to UAL's hubs? but you got cheap air fares right?!

"Ohhh what a neat question - none...are you happy? But, how many employees did they furlough? How much in concessions did they ask for? Why are they in much better financial shape than the others? If my beloved Southwest wanted to start a bloodbath, they would have struck hard and fast in Denver, Pittsburgh, and even a handful of flights out of DFW. It wouldn't have been pretty. You should thank them for showing such restraint. And how many cities that you cite as UAL cities are really "Express" cities? "

Micheal Jordan was the best basketball player I've ever seen play (with the Bird a close second). But you know what? He SUCKED at baseball (at least at the professional level). He was wise enough to figure out what he was good at and stick to it. SWA has done the same. SWA didn't come to DEN or PIT or CLT because they want to stay PROFITABLE, not because of some crazy sense of esprit de corp. You are reaching now. you are right, it would NOT have been pretty, for SWA.

"thanks to your "insights" on my work habits and your "knowledge" of my travel demands, you've pretty much insured that UAL will be my absolute LAST choice when it comes to air travel. "

First, i no longer fly for UAL, and haven't for around 6 months. I chose to walk away (at least for now) and make significantly more for my troubles, so my statement should in no way be construed as a UAL thing, second, if your choice of airlines can be influenced because somebody "hurt yours feewing" on an internet board, then I'm sure who hands out the best coloring book is VERY high in your "who to fly" decision matrix. But if you choose to fly somebody else, I'm sure UAL won't miss you. Despite being #1 in ontime arrivals and completion rate, you seem to have been on just about every single flight that was late or cancelled, or at least you squawk like it. Sometimes it is better to tell a pax to go fly somebody else (see Herbs letter to "Mrs Crabapple" in NUTs). As to my attack of your government job, i must admit, i did it on purpose to see if i could spin you up. you see, I find your "cute" little signiture block HIGHLY offensive (although I'm not boycotting Kansas (your employer) over it). to even suggest that "but for the grace of god" that I (an Aviation PROFESSIONAL) would show up to work drunk, or that I would violate company policy and the basic tenants of airmanship just to avoid going around (and BEING LATE oh my) like that worthless scab did at Burbank, is BEYOND offensive and goes WAY past accusing someone of loafing on the job (lazy vs CRIMINALY NEGLIGENT). So please, wipe away the tears, we know you worked hard for your job.

But I can't close without saying again, that it is hard for me to comprehend the audicity of some of the posts I read here (not all from you). You think you have it all figured out. You have NO IDEA what goes on behind the grey door. Your impression of an airline seems to be based on who's F/As tell the funniest jokes, and if there is trash in the seat back pocket. How many jumpseats have you rode on? how many jets have you personally inspected up close? How many pilots have you trained? how many do you even KNOW? You are like a resturant patron who loyally goes to the same Tex mex resturant oblivious to the fecal content in the refried beans. you haven't gotten sick yet, right? Does it matter to you what happens in the Kitchen? I wouldn't have the cajones to lecture a Dr on his profession (especially the high dollar Harvard grad), it's comical to see you lecture us on ours


Ignorance is Bliss
 

KCFlyer

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Why the interest in income levels and housing costs in Kansas City, bus? Thinking of relocating? There''s more bang for the buck on the Missouri side, Hope that helps.
 

Busdrvr

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On 5/13/2003 9:08:16 PM KCFlyer wrote:


Why the interest in income levels and housing costs in Kansas City, bus?  Thinking of relocating?  There''s more bang for the buck on the Missouri side, Hope that helps.

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Nah, I''l stick to cities with private sector jobs, and good airline service. I may need to go to SIN, HNL, or NRT ya know :0)
 

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